Ultra basic intro to music theory using Ableton Live. Also, could do with some expert assistance.

[ghettosynth]

Good effort but I would concur with JumpingJackFlash that's it's a little odd to start with A minor rather than C Major. Almost every music teacher starts with C Major so it's a step away from convention.

I'm guessing the target audience likes minor keys. Why waste time learning two keys when one has all the notes that you need?

Does it really make a difference here, I mean in a pedagogical sense? I don't think that it matters all that much. If you blink you might miss the C major on your way to your hit record. I think that the more important point is that the OP is creating content that is trying to appeal to a particular audience. He's taking input from the community and giving credit where it's due.

In short, I think that the OP is doing a nice job creating something that some people will find useful.

[JumpingJackFlash]

I've done that and put this image with it, you might want to check it
http://www.macableton.com/_Media/triads ... n_live.png

Yes, good image - I like it.

Am I right in saying that you don't call the notes perfect, just the intervals?

Correct. Fifths and fourths primarily, but also possibly unisons and octaves can be described in this way.
Note however that there is no such thing as a "perfect third" or "perfect second".
See the links in my sig for more info.

[robogone]

I'm guessing the target audience likes minor keys. Why waste time learning two keys when one has all the notes that you need?

Yes, they have the same notes but that's pretty much where the similarity ends.

It's ass backwards to start with minor keys. Sure it's a convention, but if this is a basic lesson why do the opposite of convention? It increases the likelihood of confusion when a comparison is done with what pretty much everyone else does.

[JumpingJackFlash]

It's ass backwards to start with minor keys. ... It increases the likelihood of confusion

Minor keys are also inherently more confusing due to the variable nature of the 6th and 7th degrees.

[ghettosynth]

I'm guessing the target audience likes minor keys. Why waste time learning two keys when one has all the notes that you need?

Yes, they have the same notes but that's pretty much where the similarity ends.

Should have used a smiley, I'll add one now

It's ass backwards to start with minor keys. Sure it's a convention, but if this is a basic lesson why do the opposite of convention?

Follow me here, because it gets to the all important "minor key" first! There's less learning separating the reader and his new hit record! Didn't I say that already?

It increases the likelihood of confusion when a comparison is done with what pretty much everyone else does.

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. On a more serious note, it's the OP's tutorial, it's really basic, and maybe being the only tutorial starting it on the minor keys opens some people's eyes to the fact that it's only convention to start with the major keys and the relationship is what's important, then again, maybe it will confuse the hell out of them.

If anyone reads his tutorial, however, and learns from it then he's having more impact than those of us sitting around on our asses kibitizing. This is really targeting mostly "dance music" right? I mean we all know that dance music isn't "serious music", so, who cares?

Honestly, I don't see that it's that much different than the ezguitar books that start you off with simplified first position chords to get you "jamming." He can just switch back the other way later and say, "we did it this way to get you cranking out your next trance hit ASAP, but now we're going to proceed in the conventional manner"

I'm just saying, I don't think that it's THAT confusing.

[ghettosynth]

It's ass backwards to start with minor keys. ... It increases the likelihood of confusion

Minor keys are also inherently more confusing due to the variable nature of the 6th and 7th degrees.

Did I miss something, I thought that the OP was just talking about the natural minor? Because once you start talking about the "variable nature", the whole "stick to the white keys for awesomeness" thing goes out the window.

E

[JumpingJackFlash]

I thought that the OP was just talking about the harmonic minor? Because once you start talking about the "variable nature", the whole "stick to the white keys for awesomeness" thing goes out the window.

Hence the "more confusing" bit!

Though, remember the "harmonic minor" is a scale, not a key (and will always involve at least one black note).

[ghettosynth]

I thought that the OP was just talking about the harmonic minor? Because once you start talking about the "variable nature", the whole "stick to the white keys for awesomeness" thing goes out the window.

Hence the "more confusing" bit!

Though, remember the "harmonic minor" is a scale, not a key (and will always involve at least one black note).

Sorry, I meant the natural minor. Sure, it won't be long before you have to ditch the minor before major idea. I just wouldn't be surprised if there were at least a few bedroom+ trance/progressive house producers who've never left the white keys. They'd be grateful for the minor first approach

[JumpingJackFlash]

I just wouldn't be surprised if there were at least a few bedroom+ trance/progressive house producers who've never left the white keys. They'd be grateful for the minor first approach

Do you have some aversion to C major? - That key only ever uses white notes diatonically (unlike A minor).

And, just because they stick to the white notes doesn't necessarily mean they are writing in either of these keys. If a song sticks rigidly to the notes of the A natural minor scale for example, they would probably be more correctly described as being in the "Aeolian mode" rather than the "minor key". But modality is clearly beyond the scope of the OP, so let's try not to confuse things!

[kennyda]

Good effort but I would concur with JumpingJackFlash that's it's a little odd to start with A minor rather than C Major. Almost every music teacher starts with C Major so it's a step away from convention.

I'm guessing the target audience likes minor keys. Why waste time learning two keys when one has all the notes that you need?

Does it really make a difference here, I mean in a pedagogical sense? I don't think that it matters all that much. If you blink you might miss the C major on your way to your hit record. I think that the more important point is that the OP is creating content that is trying to appeal to a particular audience. He's taking input from the community and giving credit where it's due.

In short, I think that the OP is doing a nice job creating something that some people will find useful.

cheers ghettosynth!

I've done that and put this image with it, you might want to check it
http://www.macableton.com/_Media/triads ... n_live.png

Yes, good image - I like it.

cool!

Am I right in saying that you don't call the notes perfect, just the intervals?

Correct. Fifths and fourths primarily, but also possibly unisons and octaves can be described in this way.
Note however that there is no such thing as a "perfect third" or "perfect second".
See the links in my sig for more info.

right, got it. I used to know a girl called Tracy Perfect by the way!
yeah, gonna check your links out, shall I put them on my site?

Regarding this minor first business, I've done them more of less simultaneously really. I do start with A minor but i immediately mention C major.

However its is more likely that people doing dance music will use A minor, as in the rock guitar I mentioned, which is usually pentatonic.

I have no idea why major is normally done first.

In the second tutorial I start with C major by the way.

[tapper mike]

Absolutely untrue. You can't pigeonhole genre by preference of major or minor keys or modes in general. Carlos Santana (a rock guy) has a preference towards the dorian mode. While several of his more popular songs work from the dorian mode He does write in aolean, ionian, phrygian and mixolydian not to mention borrowing from the pentatonic major and pentatonic minor.

What separates styles the most is......
















































THE BEAT

[robogone]

I have no idea why major is normally done first.

Probably no really good reason other than it's convention. I doubt you'll find any music teacher who starts with anything other than C Major. Even on transposing instruments where you might benefit from learning say Eb Major at first - it doesn't happen, you'll learn in C Major when you start.

[jopy]

major is easier because it doesn't have separate harmonic, melodic, and natural forms like minor does.

[JumpingJackFlash]

Even on transposing instruments where you might benefit from learning say Eb Major at first - it doesn't happen, you'll learn in C Major when you start.

This is not necessarily true. On the clarinet for example C major is not a particular easy scale for a beginner, and most start with F major which fits the fingers better, then G major. I imagine other instrumentals are taught in a similar way; what is easy on one is not necessarily so on another. (Even on the piano, B major is easier for the right hand than C).

[robogone]

Even on transposing instruments where you might benefit from learning say Eb Major at first - it doesn't happen, you'll learn in C Major when you start.

This is not necessarily true. On the clarinet for example C major is not a particular easy scale for a beginner, and most start with F major which fits the fingers better, then G major. I imagine other instrumentals are taught in a similar way; what is easy on one is not necessarily so on another. (Even on the piano, B major is easier for the right hand than C).

But they're on a sharp and flat different respectively. What I mean is that say on an alto sax you learn in Eb, then you have learned how to play along in the key that most people start with, but C is where most people learn so you have to play in A to play with people playing in C.

Out of interest, G and F are only a sharp and flat away from C - what makes it easier to learn clarinet in those keys? I'm assuming it's a thumb fingering if other woodwinds are anything to go by?