Cytomic 'The Glue' Compressor

[4damind]

Demoing the Glue now - in Logic. Is there a way to see a pulldown menu of the presets? I can cycle through them, but it's a bit tedious that way. The normal area where the pulldown menu would show the presets is just only "default". I can find the preset menu, etc., but something isn't right. Just downloaded the demo from Cytomic's site - v1.2.1.

Anybody?

Unfortunately no, there is not a preset browser. You must click "default" and then "load" and there you can pick the preset from the preset folder.

[Phase47]

Demoing the Glue now - in Logic. Is there a way to see a pulldown menu of the presets? I can cycle through them, but it's a bit tedious that way. The normal area where the pulldown menu would show the presets is just only "default". I can find the preset menu, etc., but something isn't right. Just downloaded the demo from Cytomic's site - v1.2.1.

Anybody?

Unfortunately no, there is not a preset browser. You must click "default" and then "load" and there you can pick the preset from the preset folder.

That's, uh... wow, really?

Workflow killer.

[andy-cytomic]

There is no integration with preset systems in hosts. I only display one preset, the current one. You can load and save presets using logic if you want, and there is a .zip file of presets in this format here:

http://www.borg64.com/theglue/theglue.zip

Thanks borg64 for putting these together! You just need to copy them to where logic saves its presets and it will pick them up in the main preset menu in logic.

In the future I will improve preset handling for all the plugin formats.

[Phase47]

Thanks Andy - yeah that worked, though it seems very sluggish - like there's a lag w/ the presets menu or something. Other than that, the compressor sounds great.

[justin3am]

There is no integration with preset systems in hosts. I only display one preset, the current one. You can load and save presets using logic if you want, and there is a .zip file of presets in this format here:

http://www.borg64.com/theglue/theglue.zip

Thanks borg64 for putting these together! You just need to copy them to where logic saves its presets and it will pick them up in the main preset menu in logic.

In the future I will improve preset handling for all the plugin formats.

These AU presets work in Ableton Live and Numerology as well. I assume they will work in any AU host. Thanks for sharing!

Place the presets here:
\\Library\Audio\Presets\Cytomic\The Glue
or
\\Users\<your username>\Library\Audio\Presets\Cytomic\The Glue

[andy-cytomic]

Thanks Andy - yeah that worked, though it seems very sluggish - like there's a lag w/ the presets menu or something. Other than that, the compressor sounds great.

I have no idea why changing presets isn't instant, it should be just as quick as clicking the next / prev arrow in the preset menu of The Glue itself. If it isn't then I'm pretty sure it will be at the Logic end that something is holding things up. When I update preset handling in The Glue I'll be able to investigate such things properly, but I can't do anything much more at the moment. Perhaps you could just take a few seconds to turn the knobs so they are what you want like you would on a hardware analog compressor? That way you will get a setting specifically tailored to your sound and not some generic setting that may not sound any good.

[HcDoom]

I never understood people who want presets for compressors and eq's. In 99% of cases they wont work on your source material.

[Nielzie]

I never understood people who want presets for compressors and eq's. In 99% of cases they wont work on your source material.

As a starting point. Presets can be tweaked to fit the source material better of course.

[HcDoom]

Don't know about others, but I am usually quicker to do my own preset than to search for right one and than tweak, etc.

[andy-cytomic]

I have been slack getting really good preset integration with hosts, there are no excuses on my behalf. I have put bug fixes and fine tuning algorithms for performance and audio quality in front of adding good preset support. I'm sorry that things are a bit of a pain at the moment, but they will improve in the future.

[Oden]

No worries at all. Sorry for having to post but I didn't want any incorrect information being posted.

Andrew Simper

For sure mate. I'd rather know the truth. Too much reading at Gearslutz it seems:


http://www.gearslutz.com/board/4171444-post2.html

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/2970243-post9.html

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/1462724-post27.html

It's apparently quite a common misconception.

From a quick read I see they are not talking about the envelope follower, which I think is the critical thing here, they are talking about the fact their are two amps instead of one that are being controlled by the envelope follower. This to me misses the point of what feedback is, but I will double check on the official definitions with some more people.

What happens in The Glue is the input signal gets split between two amps, the sidechain amp, and the main amp. The sidechain section is feedback, since the signal goes into the sidechain amp, then through the ratio shaper, then into the envelope follower then this control voltage is offset by the threshold voltage and fed to the sidechain amp again making this a feedback structure. The same control signal voltage is also taken post envelope follower, but the makeup gain is added and this is used to control the main signal. In a feedforward design the envelope follower itself has no feedback. In this regard the circuit of the 1176 and the g-series compressor are the same, other than the 1176 having only one "amp" being controlled by the control voltage instead of two as in the g-series.

I'll knock up a diagram to show what I mean. The main benefits of having two amps instead of one is (a) you can decouple threshold from makeup gain (in the 1776 you have to increase the input gain to get the circuit to compress) and (b) you can also have an external signal driving the sidechain instead of just the main signal.

Andrew Simper

Sorry for thread necromany, but I am still trying to figure if this is feed back or feed forward.


From the description it sounds like the side chain comes first which means feed forward. But why would the side chain be fed back onto itself?

I am so confused.

[andy-cytomic]

Sorry for thread necromany, but I am still trying to figure if this is feed back or feed forward.


From the description it sounds like the side chain comes first which means feed forward. But why would the side chain be fed back onto itself?

I am so confused.

The Glue is a feedback compressor, as is the SSL G-Series Bus compressor. Internally in The Glue the input signal is send to two amps, the sidechain amp (with the envelope follower after it) and the main amp, and the threshold control boosts the level of the signal going only to the sidechain amp, which gets the envelope follower something to follow. The envelope follower output signal is sent back to the sidechain amp to lower the level, which makes it a feedback compressor. The envelope follower signal is also sent to the main amp, and there is another knob called makeup which is attached to this as well. This way a change in threshold doesn't boost the entire level of the signal like it does on other feedback compressors like the 1176.

[sunny_j]

Hi Andy,

When will you get around to solving the mousewheel bug in Glue. It really is an inconvenience !!

[Oden]

Sorry for thread necromany, but I am still trying to figure if this is feed back or feed forward.


From the description it sounds like the side chain comes first which means feed forward. But why would the side chain be fed back onto itself?

I am so confused.

The Glue is a feedback compressor, as is the SSL G-Series Bus compressor. Internally in The Glue the input signal is send to two amps, the sidechain amp (with the envelope follower after it) and the main amp, and the threshold control boosts the level of the signal going only to the sidechain amp, which gets the envelope follower something to follow. The envelope follower output signal is sent back to the sidechain amp to lower the level, which makes it a feedback compressor. The envelope follower signal is also sent to the main amp, and there is another knob called makeup which is attached to this as well. This way a change in threshold doesn't boost the entire level of the signal like it does on other feedback compressors like the 1176.

Thankyou, now I understand how it works.

But why is everyone telling me that SSL comp is in fact feed forward design? Maybe they only looked at the side chain on the input and concluded it's feed forward.

What are some famous feed forward comps then? DBX160?

[andy-cytomic]

Thankyou, now I understand how it works.

You're welcome!

But why is everyone telling me that SSL comp is in fact feed forward design? Maybe they only looked at the side chain on the input and concluded it's feed forward.

I don't know why some people are telling you the wrong thing, but you can now tell them the right thing and help stop spread mis-information. The Glue is a feedback compressor as is the SSL G-Series Bus Compressor. The SSL G-Series channel compressor is a feed forward design.

What are some famous feed forward comps then? DBX160?

From a quick look the schematic the DBX 160 looks like an RMS feed forward compressor: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachme ... dbx160.jpg

I don't know which compressors are famous, so it's very hard for me to tell you which famous compressors are feed forward. If you can provide me a link to a schematic you are interested in I can have a quick look at it for you, but...

If you don't mind explaining then why are you asking this in the first place? Judging a compressor just on if it is feed forward or feed back doesn't make sense to me since there are many more important aspects to the design that determine a units behaviour and tone. The SSL G-Series bus comp and the 1176 are both feed back compressors, but I would never use them in the same role as they sound completely different and are good at completely different things.