KVR Audio

SAW75 · Post by **SAW75** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:05 am

I FIRMLY believe that if a c/r based protection system can not tell the same hardware is being used, then it is an abuse. The system is overzealous and dangerous to paying customers.

Meanwhile, from what I've heard, every arturia product is cracked. Nice job guys.

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:01 am

Every time I consider Arturia products, there are two things that stop me: the high price and the copy protection. The reason this story MAINTAINS my disinterest in Arturia product is the example of Ableton Live made earlier in the thread.

Ableton sent me a message about using up my last authorization. That's why I currently don't use Live, and why I never got past the first tutorial in learning it. I replaced several computer components, one after the other, including motherboard, memory and drives (all the stuff that kills challenge / response systems), and reinstalled everything repeatedly due to incompatible and defective parts, losing 3 of my authorizations to unproductive computer tech nonsense, and the third to a hard drive I upgraded on my MacBook). Four authorizations only? With how screwed up computers can be??

Screw that. I've zero interest in begging a software company to believe that I'm the legit and honest paying customer I am, when the people who steal their stuff get away with it with less hassle. It's customer abuse. The only reason I still use Reason after it had a dongle added to it was because of the option to log in through the web. I hate dongles. They waste system resources, USB sockets, time and can break or die. That's exactly why I almost never used my Cubase 4.5 license. Tech nonsense pisses me off, especially when it's ultimately pointless and leads to my wasted time.

samsam · Post by **samsam** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:43 am

Re. Ableton

When I used up my penultimate authorization I wrote to them, no grovellIng, and they reset my authorizations. The only real issue I've seen is if people run out over the weekend. Also you are allowed to install Live on 2 computers at the same time.

audiojunkie · Post by **audiojunkie** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:48 am

michi_mak wrote:
audiojunkie wrote:...or watermarking for protection. It would make it easier to make safe purchases. ...
regarding watermaking you might want to ask Tone2 how they feel about getting bad mouthed, burned, blamed and some other nice things done on them for watermarking ( threads trying to deal with them watermarking usually get locked rather soon )...

The term, "Watermarking" is a broad term that could be many things, from having the purchaser's name embedded in the code (Allowing the developer to know the source of the pirate), to more creative things, such as having the GUI appear to melt, to things like you mention with Tone 2.

. My point is, that watermarking, though dependent on the method of implementation, CAN be a hassle-free form of copy protection that doesn't punish the consumer--which is the opposite of what C/R can do to a consumer. I personally don't buy any software that hassles me, the consumer, more than it hassles those pirating the software.

--Sean

kv331 · Post by **kv331** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:54 am

audiojunkie wrote: KV331's Synthmaster uses just a serial, I believe.
--Sean

Correct! We really dont like causing hurdles for our customers

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:01 am

I bought three products at the time when Arturia used serials only, the minimoog V, Moog Modular V and Arp 2600V. When they upgraded these to version 2, they introduced the choice between dongles or hardware authorization. They actually offered the v.2 upgrades for free but I never took it due to potential problems like the onees mentioned in this thread. Sometimes a user friendly protection scheme just outweighs a lot of extra bells and whistles.

osiris · Post by **osiris** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:32 am

That's what I love about companies like Tone2, Rob Papen, and Audio Damage. Tone2 is the best. I love the keyfile (and please - no more BS about watermarking. It's the software watermarked. If you're not sharing, why should you be caring)
And papen and AD have all your serial numbers in your account. Need to reinstall? Login, download, get serial# and go. Easy peasy. Same with Cakewalk although I did have issues with the boxed version of Rapture I got at a physical store.
(cakewalk reps also made me feel like a thief - someone had already bought it, registered it, re-wrapped it and returned it. To this day I still can't get Rapture in my CW account)

SODDI · Post by **SODDI** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:53 pm

This is all good info to know. I was shopping the Arturia line the other day, almost ordered some stuff. I can shop other stuff just as easy.

I have had nothing but good experiences with NI and Steinberg regarding their DRM.

However, I've got a lot of hard feelings towards software companies who treat their paying customers as potential thieves from step 1. I've gotten caught once by a company playing games with registration codes - Image Line - and I will never buy any of their products ever again. And I have no problem recommending that none of you buy their products either.

I am a middle-aged man who makes electronic music. I only run legit software. I am not running a secret lab that releases crackz and warez upon an unsuspecting world.

If you make it hard on me to use your software, I won't buy it.

ksandvik · Post by **ksandvik** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:03 pm

SODDI wrote:This is all good info to know. I was shopping the Arturia line the other day, almost ordered some stuff. I can shop other stuff just as easy.

I have had nothing but good experiences with NI and Steinberg regarding their DRM.

However, I've got a lot of hard feelings towards software companies who treat their paying customers as potential thieves from step 1. I've gotten caught once by a company playing games with registration codes - Image Line - and I will never buy any of their products ever again. And I have no problem recommending that none of you buy their products either.

I am a middle-aged man who makes electronic music. I only run legit software. I am not running a secret lab that releases crackz and warez upon an unsuspecting world.

If you make it hard on me to use your software, I won't buy it.

Yes. Don't play games with paying customers. Backfires.

CT · Post by CT » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:04 pm

samsam wrote:Re. Ableton

When I used up my penultimate authorization I wrote to them, no grovellIng, and they reset my authorizations. The only real issue I've seen is if people run out over the weekend. Also you are allowed to install Live on 2 computers at the same time.

I can also confirm from experience that Ableton are very good with this. In fact, Ableton are usually pretty quick to respond. They also do not restrict license transfers in any way and don't charge a fee. On the whole, their customer service is pretty good.

SAW75 · Post by **SAW75** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:44 pm

The last time I owned Ableton Live the copy protection was unable to tell when I re-authorized on the same machine after a software change. Good way to burn through authorizations and I just don't get the point of it.

They've been off my list for quite some time.

Nielzie · Post by **Nielzie** » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:06 pm

kv331 wrote:
audiojunkie wrote: KV331's Synthmaster uses just a serial, I believe.
--Sean
Correct! We really dont like causing hurdles for our customers

Yes true, but the downloaded (zipped) program files are watermarked I believe, or has that been changed?

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:01 am

CT wrote:
samsam wrote:Re. Ableton

When I used up my penultimate authorization I wrote to them, no grovellIng, and they reset my authorizations. The only real issue I've seen is if people run out over the weekend. Also you are allowed to install Live on 2 computers at the same time.
I can also confirm from experience that Ableton are very good with this. In fact, Ableton are usually pretty quick to respond. They also do not restrict license transfers in any way and don't charge a fee. On the whole, their customer service is pretty good.

Thanks for the reports about your experiences. I might try to get the new authorizations some day. At the time, I was just so filled with piss, spite and bile. And I didn't "get" Live at all. Still don't. But I read about people using the audio warping as creative effect and opened up Live on my PC where I'd last authorized it and tried it. Neat effect. Then the machine died (no causal linkage, hah).

spikey · Post by **spikey** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:28 pm

Update:

I wrote the Arturia person back (after finally getting the authorizations that took over a week) who was to also help me zero out my now worthless used authorizations( once used they can NOT be used again). I told him what I thought my limitations on the codes WITH a dongle, and how I felt about Arturia NOT zeroing out my authorizations. I did get a 3rd reply back.

Here are my remarks...
-------------------------------------

Rabii,

Arturia's customer service to their customers is the worst in the business
it seems. I should have the right to request that you ZERO OUT my used
authorization codes too, so that I can fix my OWN issues next time, with
out having to deal with you. I have to put up with
Dongles AND limited authorizations that Arturia will not reset for me when
requested? REALLY?

Not only will you not do what was requested and ZERO OUT my used
authorizations, you then proceed to browbeat me in reply for using my
select few codes (you will NOT ZERO OUT even when they are no longer any
good to me along with using a DONGLE), by telling me I need to use it wisely.???

Wisely?

I do hope you know that MANY on the online forums (KVR and others)
now know of Arturia's lack of service requests by me, and overall lack of caring
for their customers, and they ALL pretty much agree that your service to
your customers and to me STINK. Please pass this forward to your bosses
and tell them the old stand by that go's, the customer is always right. I
don't think that they have heard that one. At least they have hired people
that have not heard that before. If I am wrong about you, then PROVE IT
and ZERO out my authorizations so that I can fix my own issues in the
future!

----------------------------------
And His recent reply..

You were already granted a replacement activation codes, allowing you to download a new license for your virtual instrument. The license is the true value of your instrument, loosing it means loosing the usage of the instrument; therefore a special care should be taken towards this license.

This is the 3rd time you are requesting such a replacement license, it is likely that it is the last code we can reasonably release, so the USB-eLicenser solution is now highly recommended.

Kind Regards,

Rabii.

----------------------------------

Granted you get more bee's with honey, but I was already fed up and halfway expected as much. Its like he/they refuse to even discuss zeroing out any used codes, and since they are limited you are truly stuck once they get used up. My thinking is If your synths are registered and have been authorized on the site, then WTH is the problem? Maybe Im asking too much, isnt that just a few key-strokes for the savvy?? But- There is no shame (or much help) in them it seems. As always YMMV, hopefully better than mine.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:03 pm

I still didn't get what are your problems. Once you have the eLicenser with the licenses on it, you may install the software in ANY computer you want, and have it working just by inserting the eLicenser. I have this since years, with software from Arturia, Korg (early versions), Waldorf, VSL, Steinberg, etc., and never had an issue.
What do you want new codes for? I agree with Arturia that you must be doing something really wrong. And bashing on them because you have "rights"? Really? What about THEIR rights?
If you bought a book, and leave it forgotten somewhere when you returning home, would you go to the bookshop claiming for a new one? Or if you leave your laptop somewhere, and someone take it, would you go to the shop asking for a replacement?

Arturia Support on re-Authorizations STINK