KVR Audio

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:25 am

donato wrote:Besides, as great as DIVA is, it is a little boring. The synths it emulates have been done to death. Don't get me wrong though, it is fabulous.

My favorite way to use DIVA is with the Juno oscillator running through the MS20 filter.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:38 am

ariston wrote:Taking into account that "sound" is extremely subjective, not to mention most aspects of sound quality...

Hehehe, we tend to believe that there are objective criteria to sound quality though

The foremost aspect of sound quality is of course aliasing. I've written various times how oversampling alone does not solve the problem - a perfectly anti-aliased oscillator will cause the same aliasing artifacts in a subsequent filter no matter what the sample rate, if there isn't a downsamling/upsampling step inbetween. Thus, the first aspect in finding a Diva competitor should be a synth that oversamples each module (VCOs, VCFs, VCAs, FX) *individually*, or at least has very steep lowpass filters inserted into the junctions of the signal chain. How to test for this? Dunno. Check for the angle at which aliasing frequencies fall of down from 22kHz.

The next aspect is of course the non-linear behaviour of the filters. If self-oscillation of a filter does not sport any k2 and/or any higher order overtones at bareable aliaisng amounts then it probably lacks some pleasant aspects. Fire up a spectrometer, dial in self oscillation (without any external waveshaper!) and look for a spike at exactly twice the resonance frequency. If synths let you choose to drop a waveshaper before the filter, then this is way to go.

Also check for proper VCA behaviour. In the same spectrum, when you move VCA Sustain up and down, some higher order overtones should vanish a bit quicker than the fundamental. This is important for the perception of loudness in fast transients. If it ain't happening, your VCA is maybe a bit too clean to compete.

Next, if self oscillation goes all the way down to, say, 20Hz, then your synth is probably well suited for a drum machine, but it's not the filters you want to have in a synth. A key aspect of great subtractive sound is, you don't want the resonance to fight with the bass.

So here you go, a few objective criteria to go by - and we haven't even started about buzzwords yet

mcnoone · Post by **mcnoone** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:16 am

Is there any synth out there that has the sound quality of U-He Diva?

NO!

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:20 am

mcnoone wrote:
Is there any synth out there that has the sound quality of U-He Diva?
NO!

http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/jup8.php

http://www.vintagesynth.com/moog/moog.php

http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/jup6.php

http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/juno60.php

http://www.vintagesynth.com/korg/ms20.php

Maybe next time he should say softsynth or plugin and not just "synth"...

Ingo

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:04 am

Urs wrote:The foremost aspect of sound quality is of course aliasing. I've written various times how oversampling alone does not solve the problem - a perfectly anti-aliased oscillator will cause the same aliasing artifacts in a subsequent filter no matter what the sample rate, if there isn't a downsamling/upsampling step inbetween. Thus, the first aspect in finding a Diva competitor should be a synth that oversamples each module (VCOs, VCFs, VCAs, FX) *individually*, or at least has very steep lowpass filters inserted into the junctions of the signal chain. How to test for this? Dunno. Check for the angle at which aliasing frequencies fall of down from 22kHz.

The next aspect is of course the non-linear behaviour of the filters. If self-oscillation of a filter does not sport any k2 and/or any higher order overtones at bareable aliaisng amounts then it probably lacks some pleasant aspects. Fire up a spectrometer, dial in self oscillation (without any external waveshaper!) and look for a spike at exactly twice the resonance frequency. If synths let you choose to drop a waveshaper before the filter, then this is way to go.

Also check for proper VCA behaviour. In the same spectrum, when you move VCA Sustain up and down, some higher order overtones should vanish a bit quicker than the fundamental. This is important for the perception of loudness in fast transients. If it ain't happening, your VCA is maybe a bit too clean to compete.

Next, if self oscillation goes all the way down to, say, 20Hz, then your synth is probably well suited for a drum machine, but it's not the filters you want to have in a synth. A key aspect of great subtractive sound is, you don't want the resonance to fight with the bass.

So here you go, a few objective criteria to go by - and we haven't even started about buzzwords yet

Damn nerd!

BTW: I

my ACE. Sounds better to me than any of your other synths due to the simple fact that it has sexy virtual cables. Now go experiment with that and I'll give you some reports about sound quality

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:11 am

IncarnateX wrote: Damn nerd!

Hehehe, true dat

BTW: I my ACE. Sounds better to me than any of your other synths due to the simple fact that it has sexy virtual cables. Now go experiment with that and I'll give you some reports about sound quality

No worries, ACE fits almost all criteria rather well

nilhartman · Post by **nilhartman** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:15 am

Haven't heard any soft-synth coming close to Diva's sound quality. And if you pay little attention to gain stagging inside her it's even more revealing.
Load her into Numerology or any similarly deep modular host and you'll never find her limited again. It's like having a polyphonic MS20 with a hundred hands

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:34 am

_leras wrote:
Lotuzia wrote: Fyi : Oxium is only 69 € until September 5th. (end of the intro price period )

Might be the right time to get it if you like it.

LtZ
What a surprise to find such a Spam in a Diva thread...

But it's a great offer...almost a giveaway. You owe this to yourself and your family good Sir.

Crackbaby · Post by **Crackbaby** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:46 pm

Thanks Urs for that explanation .. i learned a little more about synths today!

..and thank you for mentioning the self resonance at 20hz .. that can really ruin a good sweep

Lotuzia · Post by **Lotuzia** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:12 pm

_leras wrote:
Lotuzia wrote:
ddeez wrote:hey thanks for all the responses. I apologize for not being a bit more specific. I think Diva is the best sounding synth I've heard so far, and I want another synth on the same sound quality level but with more modulation options, more VCO options etc. I will check out oxium, dcam and corona as I've seen those mentioned multiple times. Please keep the suggestions coming!!!
Fyi : Oxium is only 69 € until September 5th. (end of the intro price period )

Might be the right time to get it if you like it.

LtZ
What a surprise to find such a Spam in a Diva thread...

What a surprise to find _leras spamming us again, and again, and again ....

In case you did not notice the OP said he wanted to check out Oxium.

It was therefore fully legitimate to indicate him both the DL links, and also let him know that the intro price period will soon be over. That's what is called helpfull information.

LtZ

Echoes in the Attic · Post by **Echoes in the Attic** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:24 pm

Uncle E wrote:
donato wrote:Besides, as great as DIVA is, it is a little boring. The synths it emulates have been done to death. Don't get me wrong though, it is fabulous.
My favorite way to use DIVA is with the Juno oscillator running through the MS20 filter.

My favorite has to be the ms20 Oscs with ring mod in duo phonic mode. These along with the ms20 filters that have filter fm and its synth fx heaven. Also love the moog Oscs.

Bronto Scorpio · Post by **Bronto Scorpio** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:38 pm

Echoes in the Attic wrote:My favorite has to be the ms20 Oscs with ring mod in duo phonic mode.

I spend a lot of time with Diva but for some reason I never tried that

Thanks for the reminder!

Cheers
Dennis

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:26 pm

I'd plus 1 on Diversion and add Oxium and frankly all other XILS synths to the mix. VAZ synths too.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:38 pm

You could have a look at the demos here:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... 0&start=60

Ingo

Crackbaby · Post by **Crackbaby** » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:48 pm

The only way to remain sane in this VST universe of ours, is to forget some of those you own for a while. If you put in all vst's you have in your head at the same time and let the grey ones calculate the possibilities the lights will go out.
So forget about Tyrell, Tausynth, Oxium and Diversion for a few days. Then go through your plugins and rediscover them! Now forget about U-NO-LX, Bazille, PG8X ... keep rolling the dies and see what to forget and what to remember.

Today i forget about RetroTech (zenhizer) and remember DMD 1.5. MS20 (diva) and U-NO-LX. Diversion was yesterday, now i forget. Tomorrow i will load her up, tweaking like it was yesterday. I always love coming back to her just to find that there's an awesome sound there waiting for me like there are stars in the sky.

Forget and Rediscover - the two sanity pills of KVR.