2CAudio B2: Full Body. Maximum Attitude.

[cyphersuit]

its the unchanged factory presets, really.

[Andrew Souter]

Hi!

I'm seriously thinking about buying B2 reverb but I'm concerned about the processing delay, which according to Cubase is 64 samples (a lot IMHO).Aether and Breeze don't have (or report) such delay, so I wonder if this is something inherent to the design and unavoidable, or perhaps there will be an option in the future for realtime operation.

Thanks and cheers!

Why specifically are you concerned about a latency of 64 samples that is auto compensated for by the host? Worse case this is 64/44100 = 0.00145 sec = 1.45 ms. Or 343 * 0.00145 = 0.497 meters. Or approximately 1.5 feet.

Algorithmic reverb algs are made up of delays. If there is zero delay there is zero reverb. So when we talk about zero latency reverbs such as Aether and breeze we refer to the fact that the dry signal has no delay at all. The wet signal always has some kind of delay. Otherwise it would not be reverb.

In B2 the dry signal is delayed by 64 samples also b.c it is possible to have presets where there is zero additional delay in the wet signal (when the reverb engines are off and we use only eq dynamics and/or distortion). And it is possible to mix this with the dry signal. If this is not aligned you will get objectionable comb filtering and phase canecelization issues. Hence the dry signal is delayed to prevent this.

But I ask again, why is 64 samples really objectionable in practice? It is less latency than in inherent in the physical distance between most real world instruments and your ear when being performed live.

[Andrew Souter]

You want the preset sent? I think it's happening just using factory patches, but then again maybe I tweaked things a bunch first. So save the preset and send it? Can I save while in demo mode?

Yes please. Send it. Yes you can save presets with the demo.

[cyphersuit]

Andrew, did you read my invitation to log on to my pc via teamviewer?

Best,

Phil

[dorremifasol]

Why specifically are you concerned about a latency of 64 samples that is auto compensated for by the host? Worse case this is 64/44100 = 0.00145 sec = 1.45 ms. Or 343 * 0.00145 = 0.497 meters. Or approximately 1.5 feet.

Thank you very much for the answer, Andrew.

When you think about the delays that are chained together from all active plugins, ASIO driver and MIDI communication between the keyboard controller and the PC itself, the final delay may be clearly noticeable, specially when playing certain instruments in realtime. Even more if using the effect from an audio input for an external instrument. That's why every processing delay is important in the end, and many plugins have an option for real time operation at the expense of some accuracy or sound quality.

Currently if you use B2 as an insert effect, which is great with certain presets, when activating the "Constraint Delay Compensation" option the plugin gets completely bypassed, which doesn't happen in Aether or Breeze.

I know this is not important or noticeable for most people, but for me it is. I noticed the delay just playing a piano with B2 inserted, something was not "right" and the playing felt out of time. Then I checked the delay in the plugin information page and saw the 64 sample delay.

By the way, the reverb sound really great and it's a joy to listen with any kind of material.

Cheers

[Andrew Souter]

Why specifically are you concerned about a latency of 64 samples that is auto compensated for by the host? Worse case this is 64/44100 = 0.00145 sec = 1.45 ms. Or 343 * 0.00145 = 0.497 meters. Or approximately 1.5 feet.

Thank you very much for the answer, Andrew.

When you think about the delays that are chained together from all active plugins, ASIO driver and MIDI communication between the keyboard controller and the PC itself, the final delay may be clearly noticeable, specially when playing certain instruments in realtime. Even more if using the effect from an audio input for an external instrument. That's why every processing delay is important in the end, and many plugins have an option for real time operation at the expense of some accuracy or sound quality.

Currently if you use B2 as an insert effect, which is great with certain presets, when activating the "Constraint Delay Compensation" option the plugin gets completely bypassed, which doesn't happen in Aether or Breeze.

I know this is not important or noticeable for most people, but for me it is. I noticed the delay just playing a piano with B2 inserted, something was not "right" and the playing felt out of time. Then I checked the delay in the plugin information page and saw the 64 sample delay.

By the way, the reverb sound really great and it's a joy to listen with any kind of material.

Cheers

We are hoping to add variable latency (including 0) in the future, yes...

[dorremifasol]

Thank you very much for the good news, and I hope you enjoy the vacations!

Cheers

[Echoes in the Attic]

I guess it would make sense to set it to no latency when the dynamics are disabled? Nothing else requires latency right? Distortion don't usually introduce delay.


I'm honeslty not overly concerned about latency however I agree with the idea that when you already have several things in your setup introducing latency and doing everything in the box, sometimes it's better to just work with plug-ins with no latency so I'd I would be interested in sacrificing the dynamics for zero latency mode.

cheers

[dorremifasol]

I Just bought the thing, I couldn't resist. ^^ I've enjoyed listening to any kind of material I've thrown to the demo for the last two days.

What I really miss is way to search (and filter) for a name in the preset library. With so many I think it's a must. I needed a "Cave" effect and I hadn't the chance to search for it in a fast and simple way.

I also miss some kind of tooltip (or info-line at the bottom of the plugin window) to show basic or additional information about the control pointed by the mouse. I really don't want to check the manual just to know what CURVE or CONTOUR represent, or what is the purpose of the two buttons below the OFF icons. Almost any application nowadays shows a tooltip with a simple description when you point over anything. I expect to check the manual only to search for deep knowledge about a feature.

Using the mousewheel to increase and decrease values would also be desirable in Windows.

I expect this to be taken as a kind constructive critic.

Cheers

[cyphersuit]

just curious: which daw are you using it in?

[dorremifasol]

Cubase 6.5.3, why?

[cyphersuit]

Just because it doesn't work with my daw of choice.

[dorremifasol]

I'm sorry to read that!

[Andrew Souter]

I Just bought the thing, I couldn't resist. ^^ I've enjoyed listening to any kind of material I've thrown to the demo for the last two days.

What I really miss is way to search (and filter) for a name in the preset library. With so many I think it's a must. I needed a "Cave" effect and I hadn't the chance to search for it in a fast and simple way.

I also miss some kind of tooltip (or info-line at the bottom of the plugin window) to show basic or additional information about the control pointed by the mouse. I really don't want to check the manual just to know what CURVE or CONTOUR represent, or what is the purpose of the two buttons below the OFF icons. Almost any application nowadays shows a tooltip with a simple description when you point over anything. I expect to check the manual only to search for deep knowledge about a feature.

Using the mousewheel to increase and decrease values would also be desirable in Windows.

I expect this to be taken as a kind constructive critic.

Cheers

Thanks for the compliment.

The things you mention are great ideas and they have been on our radar for awhile. These are the king of features that are not currently possible with our existing GUI framework, but they are also exactly the kind of thing that w will be able to explore with our new framework that is part of our work in doing for 64bit osx support.

[Sequent]