Is there any synth out there that has the sound quality of U-He Diva?

[Gonga]

Well you can do it very easily with the demo version : Just assign the mod wheel, or aftertouch to the OSC 2 frequency in the mod matrix, then eventually map aftertoutch or breath controller to your pedal CC number ( Usually cc4 for expression pedal ) And there you go.

Thanks, I appreciate that. I won't delete the demo then

Oxium sounds really, really good, and it's an amazing value.

[ENV1]

For what it's worth here is the comparison of Diva and the Moog Slim Phatty which i have done during the first public beta some while ago. This is a WAV file for better quality:
Diva Slim Phatty Comparison 01

Very nice.

Impressive demonstration of why massive hype doesnt make a softsynth any better either.



Anyway, since we are comparing sound, heres a little clip from a synth which, to me, is one of the most impressive works ever done in the field of analog synthesizer emulation. Its not a moog, its not one of the very 'popular' ones, there most certainly isnt ANY kind of hype surrounding it, and with almost 5½ years on its back, many here would probably consider it 'old', too. (Which, for reasons that are completely beyond me, seems to be the equivalent of 'useless' to some people.) Well, youve got ears. Get the WAV. Listen. Compare it with Ingos WAV linked above. When youre done comparing, remember that this particular piece of software was compiled in 2007!




PS: Ingo: With regards to what youve said earlier; in many aspects you took the words right out of my mouth. Greetings to Hannover!

[IncarnateX]

That post was not just meant to complain about Urs but more to complain about the general situation and that we have another of those "Diva vs XXX" threads.
If you and others don't understand my intentions i guess i could not help very much with adding more and more comments.

I do understand about the threads but think you misattribute the cause of them. Never mind, I have no intentions to argue further about it but I don't agree with you, thats all.

[electro]

So here's my guess: If certain companies had revealed what their models are based on, no-one would need to do a comparison with Diva. But as long as they're too anxious to reveal their sources, there'll be Diva. Example: No-one has compared any CS-80 emulation to Diva, because it's obviously irrelevant to do so.

Conclusion: The lack of openness (or faith?) of some guys has cost me a lot of nerves, and Ingo a lot of grief about Diva.

So can we look forward to a U-he CS-80? Myself and alot of others here would get it without even demoing.

[fmr]

So here's my guess: If certain companies had revealed what their models are based on, no-one would need to do a comparison with Diva. But as long as they're too anxious to reveal their sources, there'll be Diva. Example: No-one has compared any CS-80 emulation to Diva, because it's obviously irrelevant to do so.

Conclusion: The lack of openness (or faith?) of some guys has cost me a lot of nerves, and Ingo a lot of grief about Diva.

So can we look forward to a U-he CS-80? Myself and alot of others here would get it without even demoing.

OK, here I go again. What's the point of another CS80? Why not an emulation of the Oberheim Matrix-12 instead? This last one was never made, therefore, it would be virgin territory.

[Kriminal]

whatever synth you use, you're gonna need an EQ to make it sound good

[hollo]

OK, here I go again. What's the point of another CS80? Why not an emulation of the Oberheim Matrix-12 instead? This last one was never made, therefore, it would be virgin territory.

+1 fmr!
I can only support the idea.

[Ingonator]

whatever synth you use, you're gonna need an EQ to make it sound good

Not that discussion again...

[Albert.VST]

...How much in synths like [insert mentioned synths in thread] does the osc, env and filters interact with each other? Is there for instance some current changing for the oscillator when the filter self resonates?

And guys.. devs.... please release filter modules for mux Im not sure mr mutools (still don't know first name .. Jo?) has a way to add other's modules, but it would be soooooooo cool

Yes Crackbaby, I completely agree with you. Something similar to APIs Lunchbox, pick the modules you like most. And like you still can do with analog modulars. And what that Propellorhead patch environment could bring. So indeed use Mux, or urging Steinberg to incorporate a polyphonic module patching interface in a future VST 4.

Haven't read this topic for a number of hours and responses shocked me a bit.
Although I do understand Ingo and feel a bit the same. I don't blame Urs, as he created an excellent product with Diva, but in my opinion it was made too much into the nonplusultra holy grail of VSTi. Giving other also good to excellent products not the respect these too deserve.

Urs took a certain approach, especially with the 0delay feedback, but if I read through the Diva manual I see statements like:
- Digital models try to reproduce this behaviour by calculating
- calculate the filter with a few test samples and look at the deviation between the prediction and the result
- we use that deviation to calculate a better prediction
- Diva applies a classic trial-and-error principle
- it can take up to 15 cycles
So it still is an approach, though proven to be a good one, to emulate the behaviour of an analog filter. It also clarifies the differences show in oscilloscope screenshots between Diva and a real analog, and the sound differences there still are. But also there will be more, and not necessary worse, approaches.

So I hope instead of all the 'compare this to that' threads in general unique features of new products become more the topic of discussion (and no, hear how good this emulates that is not a unique feature ).

B.t.w. few months ago in the German Keyboards there was a small interview with PPG creator Wolfgang Palm who said there was too little development into real new synthesis forms, most still keep playing around in the old and known architectures.

[pdxindy]

i was totally in love with Diva.
Anyway during the last months this has more and more disappeared and currently i am using Diva less and less and when than mostly as a "reference" for the included emulations.
So what's my problem? It's exactly threads like this

Conclusion? You are an idiot for not using a synth you love simply because of what some people say in forums.

[pdxindy]

so please just respect my opinion.

You opinion is bullshit and made up of lies... you have repeated these same 'opinions' at least two dozen times. This tired old rant of yours is nothing new and anyone asks you to back it up and you refuse... cause you know it is lies.

This thread was going along fine but you are the one who is arrogant and had to bring your ego games into it.

[Ingonator]

Conclusion? You are an idiot for not using a synth you love simply because of what some people say in forums.

The quote you used was not part of the conclusion, it was part of the beginning of my post.

Anyway i got many more synths than Diva and the world is not just about U-He products. After playing with those other synths Diva just don't "click" for me as much as it does for others. This could maybe change in the future.

Currently the most inspiring synths for me also based on the presets i already made with them are Tone2 Saurus (150+ presets) and Waldorf PPG Wave 3.V (2200+ presets).
Others i am currently working with are e.g. Tone2 ElectraX (also with help of the wave Designer plugin), XilS Lab Oxium, TAL U-NO-LX, Arturia Jupiter 8V and KV331 Audio Synthmaster 2.5.
Not to forget other Waldorf synths like Largo and the Blofeld.


UPDATE:
I have deleted my original statement and some other replies. I hope that this will help some people to move on.


Ingo

[Gonga]

In my experience when discussing synths, it is very valuable to make comparisons, however we seem to usually lose sight of the forest for the trees. Each musician or technician has their own reasons for using and preferring certain technologies over others. These often (usually, I would bet) appear as biases in threads where the user's preferences are not stated in advance. I have certain musical needs that must be met by my analog and VA synths or I will not be happy. My preferences have always been dominated by two characteristics which were important parts of my analog sounds in the 70s and 80s, but which I could not find in any VA I tried until about 2-3 years ago. If I had only tried Zebra, Massive, or one of the Xils Labs or FXpansion synths earlier for example, I would have been a happy guy Here's why.

There were two things that I could not do with the VAs I tried (freebies, synths that came with Pro Audio/SONAR, Korg MOSS, Novation X-Station, Arturia's, Memorymoon, MiniMonsta, Omnisphere and others recommended to me) until I discovered U-He ACE: 1) no audible artifacts when modulating the pitch, filter, or especially when sweeping the osc sync, 2) a very intense attack when the VCO ADSR is all the way down except for the sustain which is open just a bit, which is consistent and not dominated by high-frequency "clickiness" characteristic of digital envelopes. As you see, it literally took me almost a decade to find a VA that could even do the things that were important to my already-established analog sound.

And now that a few newer VAs can satisfy my needs, I am a happy camper with all of them. The U-He synths (ACE) were the first I tried that could do these things. And Diva was the first one that could nail a Memorymoog for the needs I have for it. I have compared VAs along these lines and find that Diva was the first synth I tried that could create a Memorymoog sound like Jan Hammer's Miami Vice guitar lead sound that people (Jan Hammer board fans) could not distinguish from the real thing. You can hear this sound on (never miss an opportunity for a cheap plug)

http://soundcloud.com/dan-ling/time-out

and at the end of

http://soundcloud.com/dan-ling/ryan

I think that's pretty cool. Diva can in fact sound much more like the Memorymoog WHEN USED THIS WAY (sync sweep) than Zebra, ACE, Massive, Omnisphere, Memorymoon, MinimoogV, MiniMonsta, etc. Now it isn't that Diva can sound exactly like a minimoog or a Memorymoog. It's that it sounds super close, AND it can do these analog-like things stated above that many other synths can't, and these together make it useful for doing the things I used to be able to do with my analog synths. So, that's pretty cool, and reason for exaltation (aka "hype") from my perspective. What I can say without hesitation is that for my purposes, Diva is a better Minimoog or Memorymoog simulation than any other synth I've tried (and I believe I've tried all of the "emulations"). I'm not saying Diva sounds exactly like a Minimoog, I'm not saying Diva is the best-sounding Minimoog simulation, and I'm not saying Diva is better than all the others. I'm just saying it does all the Minimoog things that I want it to do, better than any other I have tried (though I am a very particular "old analog" dude).

As a matter of fact, Diva sounds more like a Minimoog than my Moog Voyager rack mount for my purposes (bending pitch). That's only because the Voyager rack mount cannot translate midi pitch bend information into a smooth pitch bend. My pitch bends had a very pronounced zipper effect when bending high frequencies until I found ACE. I spent literally years on the Moog forums asking for a fix that was promised but never arrived.

There are quite a few VA synths that have very high analog quality now. And Diva isn't trying to be everything, so that means there are other synths that will be better for you if you want to do certain things (like arpeggiation, or emulate an Oberheim, for example).

So in closing, I would like to encourage people to take a scientific approach and STATE YOUR BIASES/NEEDS UP FRONT when having these discussions. Synths can be compared rationally when we are specific and objective about the comparisons.

[Howard]

- Diva applies a classic trial-and-error principle
- it can take up to 15 cycles

Taken out of context, that could give a false impression. Here's that bit of the manual, unchopped:

"Diva applies a classic trial-and-error principle but includes a rather intelligent way (or so we like to think) of learning from mistakes. As a rule of thumb, Diva's filters only need to be calculated once or twice in succession. However, it can take up to 15 cycles if e.g. the resonance is very high and the input is very complex e.g. includes noise."

[Uncle E]

Please can we get back to synths? I was liking all the comparisons of the various 303 emulations etc. That was interesting.

Sure, because we've never compared 303's before.