2CAudio B2: Full Body. Maximum Attitude.

[Andrew Souter]

This is gettting quite silly and is my last post on this topic...

and, is my memory playing tricks on me, or do you seem to have a habit of going on vacation every time you launch a product like this ? <--- that's not germane to the discussion really, just curious. If i'm right I would have to question the wisdom of going on vacation at such a time. If i'm right, might I suggest going on vacation before the promo ? ....certainly if "im on vacation" is going to be an excuse that you want to employ when dealing with customer queries, bug reports, etc, during a launch/promo.

Indeed I do often take a vacation shortly after releasing a product... I invite you to build what we have built and get to the finish line (which is constantly moving) and see how you feel about having some down time or not...

If you can do better than us, I salute you... Truly...

[ChiTown24]

just as i thought. thx for the confirmation.

[Sequent]

PM your real name and I will take care of it for you...

As for me... I'm going to have to abstain from $50 worth of "spirits" this weekend.

Well that might not be a bad thing. Promise if we give you the $50 back, that you will still do this??

Well, since there is still a lot of weekend left, I can't promise that I will be able to hold back! It was extra difficult last night because I kept hearing the crashing of empty bottles against the pavement coming from my neighbors next door (as well as lots of really bad singing. I'm not even kidding.)

Though I did have the monitors cranked up and was in reverb heaven! I was trying out all sorts of sound sources and combinations and honestly, everything sounded incredible! Even the bad stuff sounded good.

[Andrew Souter]

Even the bad stuff sounded good.

RMFAOL! This has got to be the best marketing quote ever!

2CAudio B2: "Even the bad stuff sounds good" tm

[billcarroll]

i would have to ask WHEN were those requests made Andrew ? After the deadline ? ... none before ? If you say so.

I don't believe I mentioned when people requested this. Nor do I think it is particularly germain to the topic... But the answer is before it ended of course, as it just ended today...

I know you didn't mention when the requests were made. that's why i asked.
And it is incredibly germane when you claim the basis of this extension was customer requests. the gimmick you're abusing here is in the timing of announcing the extension, and you know that perfectly. which is patently why you're not willing to state when the requests were made, or when they started coming in. it would be very hard {impossible} to justify only announcing the extension today if the requests you claim to be acting on came in two weeks ago. Coy doesn't suit you Andrew.

I don't care about your vacation excuses btw, you're being sly. and you know it.
There's a phrase "dont piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining", have you heard it before ?



and, is my memory playing tricks on me, or do you seem to have a habit of going on vacation every time you launch a product like this ? <--- that's not germane to the discussion really, just curious. If i'm right I would have to question the wisdom of going on vacation at such a time. If i'm right, might I suggest going on vacation before the promo ? ....certainly if "im on vacation" is going to be an excuse that you want to employ when dealing with customer queries, bug reports, etc, during a launch/promo.

@ChiTown24 ... why you feel the need to talk to somebody like this is beyond me. You're being completely toxic. You really should act like you're in the same room with somebody when you "talk" with them. And trust me when I say I'd say every bit of this to your face.

2CAudio B2 is an amazing piece of work (as are Aether and Breeze), and Andrew is a certified bad-a$$ mutherfracker. He has wallet that says so right on it. Lets not forget the artists who want to work with him and do, and then lets also not forget the awards

Andrew and 2CAudio have done many amazing things that require hard work and talent. Building amazing software, running a successful company, and creating tons more stuff than we have space here to list.

What $ they sell their software for and how long they keep it on sale is their business, literally. TIme and time again Andrew has shown he gives a damn about his customers. I'm certainly thankful for the great software at terrific prices, and even though I hated some of 2CAudio's installers I've had great luck with their support.

Personally, I think Andrew and 2CAudio deserve a damn vacation ... that and a lot more.

Ultimately if we abuse our privilege of open communication with all of the developers we are so lucky to have here on KVR, the privilege will just disappear. I'm surprised there aren't more developers like Lennard who just don't even talk with people here on KVR anymore.

Creating amazing stuff is hard work. Sadly, in addition to being an easy KVR pastime, being toxic is also destructive.

[ariston]

Ultimately if we abuse our privilege of open communication with all of the developers we are so lucky to have here on KVR, the privilege will just disappear.

+1. It's one thing to criticize, but this behaviour is completely unworthy.

[dorremifasol]

Ultimately if we abuse our privilege of open communication with all of the developers we are so lucky to have here on KVR, the privilege will just disappear. I'm surprised there aren't more developers like Lennard who just don't even talk with people here on KVR anymore.

I feel lucky to have the chance to speak to developers, and maybe even be heard and contribute to a product with my own ideas. In the end it's me who will use the thing. I run a software company and I don't think I could deal with the comments I read in this forum, some are rude and unfair.

[ChiTown24]

HI bill,
first of all I have no idea why you think i'd be reluctant to say this 'face to face'. If you don't agree, that's fine, check out the quote below - I expected that - but there's really no need to grasp at far fetched notions like my opinion only exists because we're not in the same room.

i don't expect everyone to resonate with this POV, it's hard to find wrong with two extra weeks of a promo price - right ? but i'm certain some users will understand & agree with me explicitly on this topic.

also

I do care, that's why I asked and I do understand your point. Being a dev myself I was just interested and I know, why I always stick to my campaign-deadlines and never extend them.

if you didn't know, sampleconstruct is another professional in the audio industry.
'toxic' as it may be to call foul on a cheap marketing gimmick, and how this affects hobbyists on a budget, one pro so far has publicly empathized with the point I made. I promise you there are users like me who feel the same, who may or may not be reading this thread. other pros too who may or may not want to join in for obvious reasons, they may or may not even be reading this thread. but there certainly are other pros who - by their actions - don't agree with this gimmicky way of abusing a deadline.

anyway i'm only interested in raising the issue with galbanum. I've done so, and he offered his reply. case closed as far as I was concerned.

That could have been the end of it, you know ? If you find my point so 'toxic' I'm at a loss as to why you'd seem so keen on perpetuating this line of discussion. I can only speculate.

I'll give you a pass and just leave it at that, but if you want to keep the discussion going I don't mind, I've got the time this evening if you want a more full bodied response. thanks.

[billcarroll]

HI bill,
first of all I have no idea why you think i'd be reluctant to say this 'face to face'. If you don't agree, that's fine, check out the quote below - I expected that - but there's really no need to grasp at far fetched notions like my opinion only exists because we're not in the same room.

i don't expect everyone to resonate with this POV, it's hard to find wrong with two extra weeks of a promo price - right ? but i'm certain some users will understand & agree with me explicitly on this topic.

also

I do care, that's why I asked and I do understand your point. Being a dev myself I was just interested and I know, why I always stick to my campaign-deadlines and never extend them.

if you didn't know, sampleconstruct is another professional in the audio industry.
'toxic' as it may be to call foul on a cheap marketing gimmick, and how this affects hobbyists on a budget, one pro so far has publicly empathized with the point I made. I promise you there are users like me who feel the same, who may or may not be reading this thread. other pros too who may or may not want to join in for obvious reasons, they may or may not even be reading this thread. but there certainly are other pros who - by their actions - don't agree with this gimmicky way of abusing a deadline.

anyway i'm only interested in raising the issue with galbanum. I've done so, and he offered his reply. case closed as far as I was concerned.

That could have been the end of it, you know ? If you find my point so 'toxic' I'm at a loss as to why you'd seem so keen on perpetuating this line of discussion. I can only speculate.

I'll give you a pass and just leave it at that, but if you want to keep the discussion going I don't mind, I've got the time this evening if you want a more full bodied response. thanks.

@ChiTown24 ... I'm not looking for an argument. From what I've seen of you here on KVR you seem to be a good person. I simply took issue with how you said what you said. If I thought you were just a jerk or a bad person, I'd mute you and move on.

KVR is a community, and I hope to see the community move in a positive direction. As members of this community we all have a responsibility to call each other on poor behavior. I felt the way you were speaking was out of line and I called you on it. I'd expect you to do the same for me.

[ChiTown24]

That's fair enough Bill,
I stand by my point 100% but if I failed in putting it across in as diplomatic a way as possible then I am sorry to all about that. Tried my best. On the topic of community - I think it benefits the community not to be abused by these kind of gimmicks, so if I happen to encounter it again, I will be making the same point. I've encountered it twice so far on KVR - this being the second. I'll try harder next time to be more diplomatic. Hopefully there won't be a next time, but evidently it's a gimmick that works

Thanks, and moving on... {if you guys want}
edit: and btw, cpu hunger notwithstanding, Galbanum reverb algos are second to none imo.

[metalifuxx]

Even the bad stuff sounded good.

RMFAOL! This has got to be the best marketing quote ever!

2CAudio B2: "Even the bad stuff sounds good" tm

Kind of like the analogy between pizza and sex: Even when its bad, it's still good.

[antithesist]

Why on earth would you want to have sex with a pizza?

Seriously though, I'm with ChiTown24, and I think anyone capable of anywhere near IK levels self-aggrandizement, should also be able to take the heat. I think we both got burnt under similar circumstances with Don't Crack and Flux/IRCAM. If it wasn't Chi, there were others besides me. Not to go too far off topic, but the one that burns me the most is Kush's never ending and now seemingly permanent UBK1 NAMM half-price sale. I fell for that hook, line and sinker.

That said, I expected this sale to be extended, and in other instances, I go by the first deadline for critical buys. I also expect it to come back. I'll be checking for optimization, compatibility and 64 bit updates in the mean time and may jump the next time around. Heck, I'd even pay the extra fifty bucks if a particular production would benefit significantly from it. I already have a nice stable of reverbs, and remember that best is contextual and subjective.

[Sampleconstruct]

From my point of view 2C have created another fantastic product here and have been extremely flexible with their bundle and upgrading policy, they don't deserve any kind of shit storm! Extending the deadline obviously has upset some folks here, but I don't think Andrew has extended it because he is greedy and desperately needs to sell more for less, but because B2 has been so successful within the first month after the release and selling more for less will not hurt 2C but fencesitters will simply benefit from it.

[/2c]

[ChiTown24]

extremely flexible on their bundle/pricing policy ? interesting point.

people have such short memories.

it's funny how you can congratulate the guy for re-acting, in a way beneficial for all of you, to existing customer dis-satisfaction regarding pricing & bundle policies. yet chastise, directly or indirectly, the very people who are willing to make these demands {or highlight these ugly truths} in the first place.

but ok. rabble rousing is bad, unless it yields immediate results - in which case it's Galbanum that's good - not the folk willing to put their neck out.

I feel I should remind you that the first deadline was phoney, the extension contrived, and the timing of the announcement carefully & slyly calculated.

[/$10]

wanna drop it yet ?

[antithesist]

I'll admit that I've been unable to demo B2 effectively. The CPU usage roller coaster on my C2D 2.4 blackbook under 10.6.8 just takes the wind out of any serious exploration.

I've been combining reverbs in series and parallel, and with additional outboard dynamics, EQ, waveshaping, etc. for over thirty years. In fact, my first experiences were with around $500,000* worth of gear if you count the console and tape machines. The reverbs then were a 224 and EMT 251, plus countless other suspects that came and went.

In recent years, I'm nearly all ITB save vintage Neve/Urei/etc. front end and modern SSL X-Rack/X-Desk front end, summing, monitor control, etc., though I still have and occasionally use a variety of other outboard hardware via the SSL inserts including several reverbs.

That's all a preface to the question: since I haven't been able to really run B2 through its paces, what is truly unique and or revolutionary here? You can combine the two engines inserting processing in between them. Okay, that can be convenient for recall sake, and of course, great if it just sounds great.

Let me put or pose this another way, what is unique and/or revolutionary within a single engine compared to other single engine reverbs sans the additional processing and combining? I mean, other than the extensive EQ/filtering, the additional processing can't really be put within the reverb, can it? Before, after and in between are fine, but that kind of thing can be accomplished with multiple processors.

Okay, I remembered that I downloaded the preliminary manual that wasn't available when I was attempting to demo. I read the available sections pertinent to the above questions and get the complexity of variation and control over the engine. That's a seller. I anxiously await the unfinished sections.

Back to optimization: other disconcerting things were artifacts from control adjustment for parameters, that when adjusted in other reverbs, or automated in B2 demos, don't produce artifacts. I don't know if this is inherent, or another CPU headroom issue, etc.

I'm getting it on paper, but put some of that non-linear behavior inside feedback paths, if not already there. I assume that time is feedback in some sense. Is there additional feedback around and through cascaded configurations? I'll leave it at that.

Signed, Fence Sitter

*That was early 80's money, to boot.