Synth for Acid Techno

[ZenPunkHippy]

Wikipedia is probably a better source than Gearslutz:

It is a common misconception that the filter is a 3 pole 18dB per octave design when in fact it is 4-pole 24dB per octave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_TB-303

Peace,
Andy.

[george]

Umm, so Roland was lying

Thanks for pointing up, Wikipedia has a very good technical reference link http://www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/index.php?pge=diode

Wish Mike from AudioRealism were here for discussing the quirks.

[ZenPunkHippy]

Umm, so Roland was lying

Hah! Well I don't know, not seen any official statement from Roland. It's so long ago I doubt they care. Synth geeks + rumours only now

Peace,
Andy.

[george]

Here it is a quote from the article linked above.

Start reading about the Roland TB-303 and it will not be long before you come across mention of its '18dB 3-pole lowpass filter'—apparently even Roland themselves described the filter as having these properties. A similar story could also be told of the early EMS filter.

One can only guess at the motives of both Roland and EMS for doing so: high on the list would be that this reasonably well describes the behaviour of the filter, in that the transition from the passband to stopband starts earlier, and lasts longer than, the (then) more-usual 4-pole filter (such as the Moog transistor ladder), so that the 'corner' in the frequency response is altogether a less pronounced affair (comparison plots and animations); another reason might be to try and highlight the fact that these filters are different from the competition's filters, and hence by implication, better in some way; less likely is the idea that they would want the filters to be seen as different from the Moog ladder from the patent-infringement point of view (one would expect patent lawyers to be better informed than to be taken in by this).

Very BAD Roland

Anyways, if you want the best 303, ABL is your friend.

[antto]

that wikipedia article was updated iirc after the discussion in Open303 thread, before that it contained louzy information about 3-pole filter and oscillator with sine and square wave or some similar b*llsh#t

the filter is 4-pole, but it has some HP-filters around it (which are important)
tho, the filter is not what makes the 303 what it is, that's probably the biggest myth of all, everybody thinks it's all about that filter

the beauty of the 303 is it's dry sound, in lots of tracks it's mostly dry (non-distorted)
most people now seem to just kill it with distortion ;]

[Mike Janney]

The filter is 4-pole obviously, but it rolls off less than a 24dB, more like 18dB/octave and then 24dB/octave asymptotically. Call it what you want, it's not that easy to get right. But as Antto says here, the filter is not _that_ important for the sound.

--Mike

[tehlord]

Send the output of your DAW into a guitar FX pedal or two.

Oh yes.

[ford442]

you have got to get yourself Rebirth-338 v2 if you are into acid!!

it is completely free now - i paid about $200 for it in 1997 and i was extremely pleased..!!! it is worth the small hoops to get it running..
it gives you 2 x tb-303 plus tr-808 and tr-909 with very nice emulation and incredible control over knobs, etc - as a standalone app it has features well beyond the old 303.. and i can still rewire it into Cubase 6.5 when i want.

the trick is that you'll need to give it a nudge to run in win 7 / vista - it will need winhlp32 which allows really old hlp files (crashes on first launch trying to open .hlp) and then you'll have to run the special installer since the old one was 16bit.. oh and it needs it's CD in a 'drive' to load - can be iso mounted..

installer - http://www.sendspace.com/file/p472uq
disc - http://rebirthmuseum.com (make an account to download iso)
winhlp32 - http://support.microsoft.com/kb/917607

rebirth is just great!!

there are also thousands of other people's song files out there.. it is a lot of fun - i hope you will grab it even though it seems complicated to get winhlp going..!

[lnikj]

Has/does anyone here use(d) a vst for extra distortion on 303 sounds? Using Ohmicide at the moment and have had some good results but other recommendations would be great.

@djshire: I'm using Live 8.2.1

U-He's Runciter can make ABL sound extra nasty

[george]

Yes, I used to use Saro. It is a tube distortion effect with cabinet modeling. It's based on AX-84 High Octane guitar amp. Only the preamp part is modeled. There is also no EQ (yet). Don't expect Fender-style creamy warmth - Saro goes for full-on crunch (or insanity with high drive settings).



http://www.smartelectronix.com/refer.ph ... i/Saro.dll

[twisted-space]

Anyways, if you want the best 303, ABL is your friend.

Nope, the best 303 is a 303 with a well made x0xb0x coming 2nd.

[Pacha]

Nope, the best 303 is a 303 with a well made x0xb0x coming 2nd.

Do not forget that even Charlie Chaplin once went to a Charlie Chaplin-look-alike competition. He didn't even make it to the finals. =)

[grabme]

Live? Oh, well....I don't know much about Lives built-in synths.

Anyways, I made something you might like, my first track
http://soundcloud.com/djshire/8-track-original-mix

Anyways, I made that track using mostly Apple Logic plug-ins, including the percussive elements (all made using ES2).

Funny! However, if you're going for the acid house sound 1989 style it has to be way more simplistic and with very sparse use of effects. i think your track is too crowded and with too much room. But it may just be me.
I did a take on acid house a while back
http://soundcloud.com/kbeesmusic/k-bee- ... acid-house
very simple stuff

I wouldn't say either example is particularly acid house ala 1989. The first one isn't too crowded, its too basic and nothing of interest holds the attention, also using far too many effects although it sounds more futuristic than the 80s acid. Just looking at the waveform tells me all I need to hear.
The second track is closer to early acid but there is too much going on and no general theme, its a generic acid riff that is neither memorable or clever. It sounds like neither of you lived through that era but perhaps that's how you like your acid?

[grabme]

Is it acidy enough? =)
http://soundcloud.com/psyvel/acid-demo

No, its like a weak rebirth demo, maybe could have used this in Trainspotting as background music but nothing like early US acid as its too happy.

[grabme]

+1 for the x0xb0x
it's basically a 303 with a more modern digital section (dinsync, midi, usb, eeprom)
you can build it yourself from a kit or buy a pre-built unit (there's plenty of em too, new and 2nd hand) just make sure to visit the adafruit forums first and check out the respected sellers

i'm fairly new to acid music myself too.. 1982 i wasn't even born yet
my impression is: keep it simple, use some of those old drum machines (606 808 909 707 and similar) and don't go too far with the effects and compression
here's my most recent track featuring the x0x:
http://soundcloud.com/antto/antto-nitro
the distortion i used there was TS-999 (vst)

if you're gonna use a software 303 emu (ABL) here are some tips to keep it as authentic as possible:
use the internal sequencer!
use a midicontroller map the 6 knobs to it and record the automation as you would if it was a real 303, tweak those knobs!

hope this helps

Again, nothing much like early acid house, it sounds more like Hacienda House. Not dark or deep enough and the drums are too light, the hats not gritty enough, too complex and moving around too much. Not bad out of the ones I've heard so far but you need to get into the genre much more deeply and remember that at the time there was NOTHING like this sound, its a very hypnotic form of house and should really hold the attention.