What Monitors to buy for a beginner?

[himalaya]

I'm guessing none of those arguing about which of these top-shelf monitors are the best for a BEGINNER got started using any of those.

It's irrelevant to the topic. The OP has stated what his budget is and some posts reflected that.

IMO , this shouldn't wade into a discussion about what are the best period, but how to help a BEGINNER get into this great hobby/career.

Certainly. The monitors recommended thus far are not 'the best' ones one can buy, but they may be the better option for the budged stated.

At the end of the day, the Op really needs to go to a shop and audition some monitors personally. It's not the best setting for critical listening however, but it may be the only option to get a rough picture of what's what. Even in that compromised setting, it will be more revealing than opinions on a forum. Who knows, maybe the OP could then get away with monitors that cost less than half the stated budget.

edit-typos

[Aiynzahev]

And I'll also say spend as much as possible on your speakers. You really don't get great quality speakers for cheap from my experience.

Wrong IMO.

Spending as much as possible is total nonsense if you take a closer look (and have a closer listen) of the mid-range priced active monitor ones.

Yes, I should say that I am one of those people, when you say you've got max $1000 I mentally remove the *max* and just substitute it with "currently"!

In other words, you can keep improving your room over time, but your speakers you keep for a long time.

But it's general like you say, sometimes it doesn't always make sense to pay more, the law of diminishing returns. But I found in my experience auditions monitors that there were huge differences on every step up to the $1000 mark.

[TR908]

Sorry to hijack someone elses thread but this seems like a decent place to ask something which has been on my mind for a few weeks:

As I've not been making music long i'm yet to buy some actual monitors. Currently using a pair of B&W DM602 s2 hifi speakers which for hifi speakers seem to be doing the job pretty well due to having a pretty flat (don't know if thats the right word but it's the best i can describe it!) sound.

But, I'm wondering just how much difference investing in a pair of monitors would make and what sort of price range I'd be looking at to get a better sound for production than the B&Ws are pumping out. i.e... Would it be a case that pretty much any monitors from the most budget of budget stuff would be better or will it be a case of spending say £500+?

Thanks

[rockstar_not]

Sorry to hijack someone elses thread but this seems like a decent place to ask something which has been on my mind for a few weeks:

As I've not been making music long i'm yet to buy some actual monitors. Currently using a pair of B&W DM602 s2 hifi speakers which for hifi speakers seem to be doing the job pretty well due to having a pretty flat (don't know if thats the right word but it's the best i can describe it!) sound.

But, I'm wondering just how much difference investing in a pair of monitors would make and what sort of price range I'd be looking at to get a better sound for production than the B&Ws are pumping out. i.e... Would it be a case that pretty much any monitors from the most budget of budget stuff would be better or will it be a case of spending say £500+?

Thanks

It's no more of a hijack of the thread than other discussions that have arisen.

HiFi speakers have historically been designed such that the listening position for the best stereo imaging are fairly far out into the room. With nearfield monitor design, this is almost the opposite case. They SHOULD be designed so that the stereo imaging occurs closer to the speakers themselves. The means by which they do this carry all kinds of technical terminology, normally revolving around the mid & high frequency drivers and the designed in dispersion patterns of the speaker cabinet design.

Whether or not your listening room acoustics can take advantage of those differences remains a matter of debate.

One thing that has to happen for any monitoring system, whether it be entry level, mid, high-end monitor speakers, hifi speakers, - coupled with the room they are used in, or earphones/headphones, is that one needs to learn how to subjectively judge familiar and/or reference recordings on the playback system at hand.

[Uncle E]

As I've not been making music long i'm yet to buy some actual monitors. Currently using a pair of B&W DM602 s2 hifi speakers which for hifi speakers seem to be doing the job pretty well due to having a pretty flat (don't know if thats the right word but it's the best i can describe it!) sound.

DM602's are excellent monitors that don't deserve the stigma attributed to other hifi speakers. They're like 802's for small rooms and excellent for mastering. However, it could be a very good idea to get a second set of monitors that are extremely revealing, such as NS-10m's.

Personally, I do most of my work on my B&W's because they're so enjoyable to listen to, then I do my surgical work on my PMC's because they're so revealing, and then I do my final test on my Tekton's (think Auratone's in upgraded cabinets) because they tell me how the end user will be listening.

[Compyfox]

Sorry I don't buy the "more noney on speakers" thing.

Some of the mentioned "low budget" ones are actually up par with certain high-end stuff budget wise. And my that, I mean the HS80 and Truth 3031A respectively.

Regarding acoustic treatment. DO NOT(!!!) underestmate that. Even if done with DIY means, you can spend hundreds of bucks easily. And here, I can relate as well. I'm going the DIY route, crawled through a lot of sources and I spent about half a grand so far just for acoustic treatment. You can expect as much needed funds for acoustic starter kits. And yes, they should be used regardless.


I've been there - this is the best advice I can give you.

[ksandvik]

Sorry I don't buy the "more noney on speakers" thing.

Some of the mentioned "low budget" ones are actually up par with certain high-end stuff budget wise. And my that, I mean the HS80 and Truth 3031A respectively.

Regarding acoustic treatment. DO NOT(!!!) underestmate that. Even if done with DIY means, you can spend hundreds of bucks easily. And here, I can relate as well. I'm going the DIY route, crawled through a lot of sources and I spent about half a grand so far just for acoustic treatment. You can expect as much needed funds for acoustic starter kits. And yes, they should be used regardless.


I've been there - this is the best advice I can give you.

Yes. Basically don't spend too much money on speakers if you don't even know the differences how they sound compared with expensive ones. Actually put aside a couple hundred dollars and 10+ hours to fix the studio acoustic environment to start with.

[himalaya]

Some of the mentioned "low budget" ones are actually up par with certain high-end stuff budget wise. And my that, I mean the HS80 and Truth 3031A respectively.

I've auditioned and compared the HS80s side by side with Adam A7 and the Dynaudio BM5A and the HS80s do not sound anywhere near as good. That's why it's essential to hear these for oneself as the differences are significant.

Coming back to the acoustic treatment issue, at this 'beginner' level I'd even hang some rugs or some other 'thick' fabric on the wall which is going to help as well. Since the monitors are near-field, the sitting position will be close to the monitors, which will further help diminish the sound of the room affecting what is heard through the monitors. This 'sweetspot' position is essential. As long as the room isn't some funny shape and there are no issues with standing waves it will be ok.

[rockstar_not]

Some of the mentioned "low budget" ones are actually up par with certain high-end stuff budget wise. And my that, I mean the HS80 and Truth 3031A respectively.

I've auditioned and compared the HS80s side by side with Adam A7 and the Dynaudio BM5A and the HS80s do not sound anywhere near as good. That's why it's essential to hear these for oneself as the differences are significant.

Coming back to the acoustic treatment issue, at this 'beginner' level I'd even hang some rugs or some other 'thick' fabric on the wall which is going to help as well. Since the monitors are near-field, the sitting position will be close to the monitors, which will further help diminish the sound of the room affecting what is heard through the monitors. This 'sweetspot' position is essential. As long as the room isn't some funny shape and there are no issues with standing waves it will be ok.

Well, here is where I have to respectfully disagree. The rugs and whatnot will help to eliminate flutter echo in the room, but probably the biggest issue with home studios is not high frequency issues, but rather the low frequency room modes, which will make holes and peaks in the bass response of the monitors in the room without the proper bass traps and placement. Funny shaped rooms are actually better, because with typical parallel wall construction, standing waves (or room modes) are nearly guaranteed in a parallel wall home studio. 'Funny shapes' can make the room modes more difficult to be excited. In fact, non-parallel walls are what one shoots for when constructing a studio from scratch - but in the home, this becomes costly and problematic when the entire construction materials industry is designed for parallel wall construction.

Best source for DIY information here for bass traps is Ethan Winer's blog, but again you will spend lots of money either buying his realtraps (recommended) or building your own.

[himalaya]

with typical parallel wall construction, standing waves (or room modes) are nearly guaranteed in a parallel wall home studio

never had any problems in my parallel wall rooms.
Then a mate of mine had a funny shaped living room/dining area which he also used as a home studio, and there was a huge bass issue in one of the corners. It felt like standing opposite a float on Notthing Hill carnival in London. Bass going right through my stomach. However, when sat in the correct position, in the sweet spot, the sound was as good as.

If the room really has serious problems than it may require some proper expert calculations and acoustic treatment to sort it out. Hence, I'd go with it with the minimum of fuss to start with.

[ClubHo]

I have some Dynaudio BM6A MKII. At the time they we the best monitors I heard at Guitar Center.
But not having a low end just makes me upset. I have 2 options now.
Either get a Dynaudio sub like the BM9s/BM14s or try out some different monitors.

Event just came out with some affordable 3 way speaker. The Event 2030s.

http://www.eventelectronics.com/2030

If I had to do it again, I would definitely get something with a better low end.

-Club Ho

[rockstar_not]

with typical parallel wall construction, standing waves (or room modes) are nearly guaranteed in a parallel wall home studio

never had any problems in my parallel wall rooms.
Then a mate of mine had a funny shaped living room/dining area which he also used as a home studio, and there was a huge bass issue in one of the corners. It felt like standing opposite a float on Notthing Hill carnival in London. Bass going right through my stomach. However, when sat in the correct position, in the sweet spot, the sound was as good as.

If the room really has serious problems than it may require some proper expert calculations and acoustic treatment to sort it out. Hence, I'd go with it with the minimum of fuss to start with.

Well, my master's is in acoustics. Parallel walls are what cause standing waves. I could go into the Euler's equation reasons and so forth, but I'm guessing that would turn boring rather quickly.

Making walls even a few degrees off of parallel is the correct design solution, but few of us can go about knocking down walls.

The high frequency issues that are solved by installation of curtains and so forth are not the nemesis of the home recordist. It is standing waves/room modes.

[Compyfox]

I sometimes have the feeling, that those who "recommend" more expensive speaker brands, or say that the HS80/Truth series are crap, don't know it any better and only go by numbers and quick listening tests at make-shift studios in music stores.

Also the most essential thing is toned down: acoustic treatment. If you're serious about making music, treatment is(!) essential. Even ARC or RoomEQWizard can't help you there. So I'd focus at least on that end, make it propery rather than saying "slap some carpet on the wall, get the most expensive sh*t you can buy and get going". This is wrong in my opinion.


I'm over 15 years in the music-making game. And I've went from crap to highly usable equipment and environments. I learned as I go and I can definitely confirm that: room first, speakers second, correction third.

I've helped setup several studios, and even within a "nearfield", an untreated room degraded speakers drastically. No matter if active or passive. So first thing was to optimize the seating position, then the acoustics (first with furniture, then with absorber), then came a speaker upgrade (if necessary) and finally a room correction scheme (may it be with the speaker built in system, a passive 30+band EQ or something like ARC or KRK ERGO).

And what do you know, even with consumer speakers (3-way system, 8" woofer), we could create excellent mixes which ported well in other studios or whatever playback system we threw it at.


Summary:
The room is your worst enemy, speakers don't matter (in the first place). Your speakers only sound as good as your room.


Then again, what do I know - I only use cheap, sh*t (according to some) Behringer Truth's.

[Uncle E]

The room is your worst enemy, speakers don't matter (in the first place). Your speakers only sound as good as your room.

Monitoring quietly minimizes a lot of room issues. While I would never say speakers don't matter, I do agree that speakers only sound as good as your room and that the room size seriously needs to be taken into consideration when selecting monitors. As I said earlier, my all-time favorite speakers are my Tannoy System 1000's but they don't work well at all in my current small room, in which my B&W's work a lot better.

[himalaya]

I sometimes have the feeling, that those who "recommend" more expensive speaker brands, or say that the HS80/Truth series are crap, don't know it any better and only go by numbers and quick listening tests at make-shift studios in music stores.

Personally, I didn't say they sound "crap". I said they do not sound as good as some other models. If you find that they sound good for your application, than that's all that matters. To me though, the difference was clear as night and day, possible to hear even standing on a mountain peak in a hail storm.