Kirk Hunter Studios FAQs, Tips and Peer2Peer Info Sharing Thread

[AKJ]

great to hear!

[Echoes in the Attic]

Kirk, thanks for offering a longer demo, however don't worry about it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to pick up the Diamond/CB2 package. It sounds like a great deal. Even if the Pattern Maker doesn't currently arpeggiate, as I was expecting. That is, unless I'm missing something. Does what I said amke sense now? Quoted below from previous page.

Can I make a feature request to include the typcial arp functionality in the pattern maker? It could use all the existing tables (it wouldn't need the tones table as the notes are dictating by the chord being played). You'd just need a switch to turn it to arp mode (and maybe rename the arp button Seq or something). You'd also need a couple arp settings for trigger mode (up/down/up&down, order played etc.) and perhaps an octave if desired. I think it would be great. I wish I could mix the functionality of the albion arp (ostinatum) with the KH Pattern Maker (I like the note length bars).

cheers

Sorry for being confusing. When I said 'arpeggiate the actual chord you are playing', I meant that it should trigger the individual notes of the chord being held, as opposed to triggering the pre-defined note offsets you can enter in the Tones Table.

I think I see what's going on. There doesn't seem to be an arpeggiator at all. When I watched the tutorial video before trying it, I wasn't looking at the notes being played on the keyboard. What I thought was being arpeggiated was actually just a sequence triggered from a single note. I see that there is a chord pattern generator and a sequencer (which the gui calls 'arp'), but no arpeggiator that I can see. The 'Arp' seems to trigger notes relative to a note that is pressed on the keyboard, offset up or down by the amount set by the tones bars, within the defined key. I'm sure that is a nice tool, but I find it much more useful to use an arpeggiator, where the notes being played are the notes that make up the chord you are playing on the keyboard. This lets you play any notes you want, sequenced by the arp.

If you want to see an example of an arpeggiator, load the factory Kontact script called "Arpeggiator". The velocity steps trigger the notes of the chord being held. Most Kontakt Libraries use a variation of the factory arp. Albion ostinatum has an arp (but it's less user friendly than velocity bars).

The TVEC 4 Pattern MAker is cool, I especially like the note length bars that let you set individual notes lengths per step, however it's a shame that it can't arpeggiate, only trigger pre-defined note offsets. If you mixed the Factory arp with what you have there, it would be very useful.

[KirkHunter]

Kirk, thanks for offering a longer demo, however don't worry about it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to pick up the Diamond/CB2 package. It sounds like a great deal. Even if the Pattern Maker doesn't currently arpeggiate, as I was expecting. That is, unless I'm missing something. Does what I said amke sense now? Quoted below from previous page.

Can I make a feature request to include the typcial arp functionality in the pattern maker? It could use all the existing tables (it wouldn't need the tones table as the notes are dictating by the chord being played). You'd just need a switch to turn it to arp mode (and maybe rename the arp button Seq or something). You'd also need a couple arp settings for trigger mode (up/down/up&down, order played etc.) and perhaps an octave if desired. I think it would be great. I wish I could mix the functionality of the albion arp (ostinatum) with the KH Pattern Maker (I like the note length bars).

cheers

Sorry for being confusing. When I said 'arpeggiate the actual chord you are playing', I meant that it should trigger the individual notes of the chord being held, as opposed to triggering the pre-defined note offsets you can enter in the Tones Table.

I think I see what's going on. There doesn't seem to be an arpeggiator at all. When I watched the tutorial video before trying it, I wasn't looking at the notes being played on the keyboard. What I thought was being arpeggiated was actually just a sequence triggered from a single note. I see that there is a chord pattern generator and a sequencer (which the gui calls 'arp'), but no arpeggiator that I can see. The 'Arp' seems to trigger notes relative to a note that is pressed on the keyboard, offset up or down by the amount set by the tones bars, within the defined key. I'm sure that is a nice tool, but I find it much more useful to use an arpeggiator, where the notes being played are the notes that make up the chord you are playing on the keyboard. This lets you play any notes you want, sequenced by the arp.

If you want to see an example of an arpeggiator, load the factory Kontact script called "Arpeggiator". The velocity steps trigger the notes of the chord being held. Most Kontakt Libraries use a variation of the factory arp. Albion ostinatum has an arp (but it's less user friendly than velocity bars).

The TVEC 4 Pattern MAker is cool, I especially like the note length bars that let you set individual notes lengths per step, however it's a shame that it can't arpeggiate, only trigger pre-defined note offsets. If you mixed the Factory arp with what you have there, it would be very useful.

I'll consider a standard arpeggiator in the future. If I were you, I'd do the CS2/CB2 bundle unless you just HAVE to have the woodwinds.

[Echoes in the Attic]

But the CS2/CB2 package is 400, whereas the Diamond/CB2 package is 250. I'm not an orchestral composer, it's my hobby so I don't want to spend too much. I already have the Spitfire Albion Series as well. I thought some individual sections would be nice and 250 isn't too much but 400 is getting more than I should be spending. So I figured Diamond would cover it and the extra CB2 is a nice bonus. I don't mind some missing articulations of strings.

Is there a particular reason you say that? Is there a list of String Articulations I'd be missing? Is there a diamond demo like there is for CS2 strings?

I only have the audio demos to go by and they sound fine for Diamond. But if possible I'd like to get a better handle on the differences.

[KirkHunter]

But the CS2/CB2 package is 400, whereas the Diamond/CB2 package is 250. I'm not an orchestral composer, it's my hobby so I don't want to spend too much. I already have the Spitfire Albion Series as well. I thought some individual sections would be nice and 250 isn't too much but 400 is getting more than I should be spending. So I figured Diamond would cover it and the extra CB2 is a nice bonus. I don't mind some missing articulations of strings.

Is there a particular reason you say that? Is there a list of String Articulations I'd be missing? Is there a diamond demo like there is for CS2 strings?

I only have the audio demos to go by and they sound fine for Diamond. But if possible I'd like to get a better handle on the differences.

Ok, for what you're doing, then the choice of Dia/CB2 is good. It's just that the smaller string sections in CS2 are much more consistent and IMO, better.

[lingyai]

Kirk, I got CS2, CB2, and Diamond in the group buy last year, and apart from a quick demo, I haven't had time to play with them any more. My schedule is now easing up. Occasionally I've perused this thread, and noticed that in the interim there have been a few updates, bug fixes etc. I'd prefer to take care of them all in one go. With that in mind, when do you expect TVEC3 and the woodwinds will be fixed?

Also -- if no automated updater is available, it would still be super useful if you could distil all the steps a group buyer needs to take get all the packages up to snuff into a concise summary. I really would prefer not to have to hunt through all 49 pages if it can be avoided.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Ok, for what you're doing, then the choice of Dia/CB2 is good. It's just that the smaller string sections in CS2 are much more consistent and IMO, better.

Hmm, interesting. I was hoping for a nice small sections. What do you mean by more consistent?

The TVEC 4 demo is CS2 right? The one thing I actually didn't like about it was the autodivisi on the small sections. For example using 4 players and playing a note and then a chord, I found that the individual divisi strings really jumped out and were louder, sounded totally different and even seemed panned. It was too unnatural to use because single notes would go from quieter and centered to wide and loud divisi notes when you play a chord. But this was from CS2. If I were to spend the money on CS2, I'd want the autodivisi function to be better. With diamond I'd be ok with it not being something I'd use since it's cheap.
Is there much difference in the autodivisi for diamond?

And what I meant earlier about the pattern host sync was whether there is a way to lock the rhythm to the host (sync it). I see that the tempo is set by the host, however it is triggered whenever you play keys, so changing chords can be very sloppy. Kontakt arps can also usually sync to the host (or latch may be the appropriate word).

[chroma]

in the main panel, you can set the volumes for each divisi (quarter vs. solo for instance) manually, and i think the panning too, so if it's jumping around on you, you can adjust it to be more even.

the autodivisi is pretty basic though, it only cuts in half, so if you play a single note (in, say, half) and then a 3 note chord, it will drop down to quarter, but you're playing three notes, so it's kind of more than a half. but again, if you always play 3-note chords, you can adjust the volumes to be even. if you mix between different chords (say, m and m7s), or actually play solo (single) passages in the same instance, then not sure what to tell you, except i have been told this isn't something that is normally done in orchestral scoring

i haven't used the pattern maker as much as i'd like, but i always think of it as more of a pattern player than an arpeggiator... the key you press determines the transpose of the pattern played, but then it just does its thing, whatever is programmed into the pattern.

[KirkHunter]

Ok, for what you're doing, then the choice of Dia/CB2 is good. It's just that the smaller string sections in CS2 are much more consistent and IMO, better.

Hmm, interesting. I was hoping for a nice small sections. What do you mean by more consistent?

The TVEC 4 demo is CS2 right? The one thing I actually didn't like about it was the autodivisi on the small sections. For example using 4 players and playing a note and then a chord, I found that the individual divisi strings really jumped out and were louder, sounded totally different and even seemed panned. It was too unnatural to use because single notes would go from quieter and centered to wide and loud divisi notes when you play a chord. But this was from CS2. If I were to spend the money on CS2, I'd want the autodivisi function to be better. With diamond I'd be ok with it not being something I'd use since it's cheap.
Is there much difference in the autodivisi for diamond?

And what I meant earlier about the pattern host sync was whether there is a way to lock the rhythm to the host (sync it). I see that the tempo is set by the host, however it is triggered whenever you play keys, so changing chords can be very sloppy. Kontakt arps can also usually sync to the host (or latch may be the appropriate word).

What I meant by "consistent" was that the ensembles were all recorded in the same space. You can adjust the levels and pan of the different sections pretty easily if they sound strange.

Since the tempo is locked to the host, I'm not sure what you mean by "changing chords can be very sloppy". If you play the key(s) a litte off so that it sounds "sloppy", you can always just input quantize, or go back and tighten the midi event. Or do you mean something else?

[KirkHunter]

Kirk, I got CS2, CB2, and Diamond in the group buy last year, and apart from a quick demo, I haven't had time to play with them any more. My schedule is now easing up. Occasionally I've perused this thread, and noticed that in the interim there have been a few updates, bug fixes etc. I'd prefer to take care of them all in one go. With that in mind, when do you expect TVEC3 and the woodwinds will be fixed?

Also -- if no automated updater is available, it would still be super useful if you could distil all the steps a group buyer needs to take get all the packages up to snuff into a concise summary. I really would prefer not to have to hunt through all 49 pages if it can be avoided.

Ok, I'll put up some free updates if they are not already on the site.
The new ww fixes might be awhile since I am going to completely redo most of them.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Since the tempo is locked to the host, I'm not sure what you mean by "changing chords can be very sloppy". If you play the key(s) a litte off so that it sounds "sloppy", you can always just input quantize, or go back and tighten the midi event. Or do you mean something else?

The tempo itself is locked but the position is not. Many sequencers/arps will play in time no matter when you trigger it. For example Kontakt's Arp, no matter when you trigger or change notes/chords, it will stay in time. This would be useful in the Pattern Maker. But yeah input quantize would be the way around that. The difference is that if you play late, your start sequence will play late by whatever your input quantize is set to. When a sequence is locked to the host rhythm and you play late it resumes where it would have been if it were triggered at the start of the appropriate downbeat. This is also useful for changing chords because it doesn't reset. Not sure if I'm explaining it right but it's quite common.

[KirkHunter]

Since the tempo is locked to the host, I'm not sure what you mean by "changing chords can be very sloppy". If you play the key(s) a litte off so that it sounds "sloppy", you can always just input quantize, or go back and tighten the midi event. Or do you mean something else?

The tempo itself is locked but the position is not. Many sequencers/arps will play in time no matter when you trigger it. For example Kontakt's Arp, no matter when you trigger or change notes/chords, it will stay in time. This would be useful in the Pattern Maker. But yeah input quantize would be the way around that. The difference is that if you play late, your start sequence will play late by whatever your input quantize is set to. When a sequence is locked to the host rhythm and you play late it resumes where it would have been if it were triggered at the start of the appropriate downbeat. This is also useful for changing chords because it doesn't reset. Not sure if I'm explaining it right but it's quite common.

I get what you're saying. It's not really my "style" of what my libraries are aimed at, but I see how the utility could be good. I suppose an input quantize could be programmed in, but have it set to a user-defined time range set in note length values...such as 8th note, quarter note, etc.

[Echoes in the Attic]

It's not really even input quantize. I think it may referred to as a 'Latch' mode usually. So for example if your sequencer starts running on beat 1 and you start playing two quarter notes late, the pattern begins two quarter notes into the sequence, rather than at the beginning. Simiarly when you switch chords, it continues within the sequence rather than restarting from the beginning. I've also heard this referred to as 'Song Position' mode with regards to sequences/arps.

[synchronizer]

Regarding the license agreement, is there any way for me to acquire permission from Kirk Hunter Studios to resell one of my product licenses? I rarely use one of the products that I have, so I would be happy to sell the license to someone else who would like it. The license agreement is slightly unclear when it comes to this matter. I cannot resell it by myself, that much I understand, but perhaps I can do so if I contact Kirk Hunter.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Regarding the license agreement, is there any way for me to acquire permission from Kirk Hunter Studios to resell one of my product licenses? I rarely use one of the products that I have, so I would be happy to sell the license to someone else who would like it. The license agreement is slightly unclear when it comes to this matter. I cannot resell it by myself, that much I understand, but perhaps I can do so if I contact Kirk Hunter.

You should try emailing him in case he doesn't notice the question in this thread.