KVR Audio

Biopharmer · Post by **Biopharmer** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:40 am

I think all this debate is silly until we actually get a demo version of LuSH-101. Because until we make the kind of patches we want to make, we won't know if we like it.
Everyone's got their tricks, nuances, and favored types of sounds in programming that will never be represented in audio demos for any product.

I hope for the best in this plugin. I just hope it's not a total cpu-hog, and that the raw sound and internal effects are good.

I mean, looking at the interface, you've got basically all the bells and whistles you could ask for. If there's anything missing, then just get another plugin to compliment it.

That's something that bugs me with a lot of critisim over a single plugin. People talk like they can't use other plugins with it. As if they have to only use this plugin for the rest of eternity.
I like to embrace the features and sound that it brings to my pre-existing setup.
This isn't a $1000 piece of hardware.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:14 am

Biopharmer wrote:Can anyone vouch for it being a good Juno emulation anyway?

electro did earlier in this thread and I can, as well, despite me not being a fan.

DrWashington · Post by **DrWashington** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:56 am

Well, I can tell you that right now, it can be heavy on the CPU, but doesn't have to be. It really all depends on the complexity of the preset and modulations. I expect continued optimization on this one, as it's D16's first 'proper', full featured synthesizer. It'll probably be their baby for some time. I really hope they decide to implement multicore support at some point, like I said. I have a feeling they will. Yes, to my ears, the effects are freakin' awesome. But, I already love the Silverline collection, so that's the kind of quality you can expect. Their resident DSP guru is up there with the best, IMHO.

Everyone has their own subjective take on what they like and don't like to some extent. For me though, this will be seeing a hell of a lot of use. It fits what I like to do very, very well. As does DIVA, as does ElectraX, as does Alchemy, as does Zebra.

The thing is, I just really like the direction software is going, in case you couldn't tell. I think this is a great time to be in this game. To the person that blasted me about my idea that gearsluttery and being prolific are mutually exclusive... yeah, I guess you're right to some extent: if you have all the time in the world to devote only to music, I can see how one could pull that off. I have so much going on that I have time to be pretty much one or the other, and I know that more stuff I have to mess with, the less expert I get at individual pieces of kit. So, I'm trying to condition myself to only buy what I know I will use, and use to the point of mastery. Yeeeeeeah, that's working out reeeeal well so far...

But, however you feel about it, you gotta admit that DSP has come a LOOOOONG way in the last decade or so. It's incredible to me where we're at now! I honestly couldn't give a crap about buying any true analog synths anymore. I had a Mopho briefly just recently, and while a lot of fun, I just didn't see any real reason to hang onto it. I loved that it could seem kind of unstable when pushed to extremes, and I could get some really beautiful sounding natural distortion in the signal. But, I'm finding I can do that kind of thing with Diva and Lush, which is absolutely sick. I love it!

So, yeah... y'all have fun arguing over the merits of analog vs. digital. I think it's fun, too, don't get me wrong... but I'm kinda done now. Did a lot of that in the past, and even found out that my ears/mind were/was actually playing tricks on me to a large extent. Imagine that!

Anyway... yeah, I don't know when they're putting out the demo, but the beta's been a blast so far. I personally really love the way this one sounds and feels. I haven't listened to the audio demos in a while, but I remember thinking they were really tame the first time around. This thing is, in reality, anything but tame. Can be tamed, but why bother?

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:53 pm

DrWashington wrote:I really hope they decide to implement multicore support at some point

CPU-wise, how does it compare with DIVA when DIVA has multicore selected?

To the person that blasted me about my idea that gearsluttery and being prolific are mutually exclusive... yeah, I guess you're right to some extent: if you have all the time in the world to devote only to music, I can see how one could pull that off. I have so much going on that I have time to be pretty much one or the other, and I know that more stuff I have to mess with, the less expert I get at individual pieces of kit. So, I'm trying to condition myself to only buy what I know I will use, and use to the point of mastery.

To support your initial point, look at all the wildly successful film composers embracing Spectrasonics and Rob Papen. This to me is evidence that there are plenty of people who want to focus on writing and not on sound designing.

Personally, I was much more precious about using my own sounds when I was in my 20's. Now that I'm pushing 40, working 80+ hours per week, spending 20+ hours per hours on extra curricular activities (exercise, martial arts, management training, etc.), and doing everything I can to keep my wife as happy as humanly possible, there just isn't enough hours in the day to be that precious.

But, however you feel about it, you gotta admit that DSP has come a LOOOOONG way in the last decade or so.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, Scope synths have been at this level for over a decade. In fact, DIVA is the only native Virtual Analog I've tried that I would choose over the Scope Minimax, Pro-12, or Prodyssey, and even then there are times when I prefer the Scope synths.

So, yeah... y'all have fun arguing over the merits of analog vs. digital. I think it's fun, too, don't get me wrong... but I'm kinda done now. Did a lot of that in the past, and even found out that my ears/mind were/was actually playing tricks on me to a large extent. Imagine that!

Were you ears and mind really playing tricks on you, though? To me, DIVA demonstrates that they may not have been, because it's far closer to sounding like a good hardware analog synth than anything before it in the native world.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:52 pm

Biopharmer wrote: That's something that bugs me with a lot of critisim over a single plugin. People talk like they can't use other plugins with it. As if they have to only use this plugin for the rest of eternity.

D16's Web Site wrote:The only synthesizer you need

So there lies the reason for the backlash. Don't make stupid marketing statements unless you're looking to spark a dialog just like the one we're having... which could very well be why they do it. Free advertising. I think this thread comes up as a link when you do a google search before D16's site.

I don't think this synth will be bad... but it comes at a time when there are a lot of good software choices and the list of good hardware choices that come in at the $400-500ish price point. So how do you sell it to a guy like me, who's got a VST folder full of excellent software synths and a decent complement of hardware analogs? You'd better have something that sounds phenomenal, has excellent unique features, will run on my Core II Duo 2.5ghz and comes in at about $99 USD. I know, it's a lot to ask, but that's the lay of the land as far as I can see. Again, that's my situation, so a n00b who's just starting out might jump right to this synth. Or a person who's experienced, but fully hardware, might pick this up to dip their toes into the world of software synths.

They do know how to do effects and their drum synths are renowned. Let's see how this one goes.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:59 pm

Uncle E wrote:
But, however you feel about it, you gotta admit that DSP has come a LOOOOONG way in the last decade or so.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, Scope synths have been at this level for over a decade. In fact, DIVA is the only native Virtual Analog I've tried that I would choose over the Scope Minimax, Pro-12, or Prodyssey, and even then there are times when I prefer the Scope synths.

...and then never posted audio to back up this claim.

Sorry, I'm going to hound you on this as long as you keep making this claim. Remember the last time you posted a nice demo of audio gear?

It made quite a dent on my bank account.

kmonkey · Post by **kmonkey** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:16 pm

zerocrossing wrote:
Uncle E wrote:
But, however you feel about it, you gotta admit that DSP has come a LOOOOONG way in the last decade or so.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, Scope synths have been at this level for over a decade. In fact, DIVA is the only native Virtual Analog I've tried that I would choose over the Scope Minimax, Pro-12, or Prodyssey, and even then there are times when I prefer the Scope synths.
...and then never posted audio to back up this claim.

Sorry, I'm going to hound you on this as long as you keep making this claim. Remember the last time you posted a nice demo of audio gear? It made quite a dent on my bank account.

I can't blame you for not believing him but i can assure you he is speaking kinda truth. I don't have Scope anymore and while i don't think minimax was better then Diva it certainly nailed that sound better then any other VST i know. Actually i could say that between diva and everything else there is only minimax.

osiris · Post by **osiris** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:24 pm

osiris · Post by **osiris** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:26 pm

I guess all the old Creamware stuff is now on Plugiator:
http://www.use-audio.com/plugiator.htm

osiris · Post by **osiris** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:31 pm

But that's gone too.
(And the plugins were $39.00

)

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:35 pm

I owned/used a Minimax ASP (= standalone version of Minimax) several years ago and after using it for a while i was not really impressed. Personally i prefer Diva over it. I have not tried the Scope version as i never owned a Scope DSP card.

SOS article about Minimax ASB:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan06/a ... maxasb.htm

Minimax ASB video:

I got the Minimax ASB (Creamware version) not very long after i sold a real Minimoog model D (i still regret a bit selling it but even more about the real Jupiter 8!!). Maybe i would have kept the Minimax ASB if i would have got it a few years later without still having the sound of the real thing in my head (or ears)...

Ingo

osiris · Post by **osiris** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:49 pm

I don't know what they were thinking with those ASP versions. Why wouldn't you just get the real deal for that price?
A cached version of Music Radar says the Prodyssey ASB was 749 pounds. Today, that's roughly $1216.00. Ebay has an Odyssey MKII 2813 for $1900.00......

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:08 pm

osiris wrote:I don't know what they were thinking with those ASP versions. Why wouldn't you just get the real deal for that price?
A cached version of Music Radar says the Prodyssey ASB was 749 pounds. Today, that's roughly $1216.00. Ebay has an Odyssey MKII 2813 for $1900.00......

Just found a video with two ASB's in "real" use:
#!

Ingo

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:16 pm

zerocrossing wrote:...and then never posted audio to back up this claim.

Sorry, I'm going to hound you on this as long as you keep making this claim. Remember the last time you posted a nice demo of audio gear? It made quite a dent on my bank account.

Maybe you missed my reply on the other thread:

In these two examples, one was done with Scope synths and one was done with ATC's. Which is which?

http://jrrshop.com/eric/Eric_Dahlberg-W ... s_Bass.mp3

http://jrrshop.com/eric/Eric_Dahlberg-M ... It_All.mp3

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:17 pm

osiris wrote:I don't know what they were thinking with those ASP versions. Why wouldn't you just get the real deal for that price?
A cached version of Music Radar says the Prodyssey ASB was 749 pounds. Today, that's roughly $1216.00. Ebay has an Odyssey MKII 2813 for $1900.00......

They were and still are fantastic sounding units. Memories + polyphony certainly make them more than available alternatives to the real deal, which was way more expensive than the ASB boxes. This is even more true today.

By the way, you have to remember that buying vintage synths on eBay does not guarantee that you will get a 100% working unit, even if the seller says that it does!