How to get best result when creating the MP3?

[Harry_HH]

Dithering is widely used when downgrading the audio file at mastering stage from higher resolution to the CD format (16 bit/44,1 Khz).

But what is best source file for the MP3? And what MP3 format to use?
Intuitively one could imagine that it's the original mastering track, i.e.
as high resolution file as possible.

But is this the case? Very often the MP3 is converted from the dithered CD-resolution file. And not all DAW's include the possibility to create the MP3 directly from the master track.

How do you create your MP3 of your own productions?

H.

[Gonga]

This is a good question and I'll follow the responses as I know basically nothing about it! SONAR requires you to pay extra for the MP3 exporting, so I use Audacity and usually use the highest setting (320 kbps). But there are other settings you can make there too, such as bit rate mode and channel mode.

[A.M. Gold]

This is a good question and I'll follow the responses as I know basically nothing about it! SONAR requires you to pay extra for the MP3 exporting...

Huh? In what sense? Do you have to buy an additional Sonar add-on to get it to spit out an mp3?

Reaper just uses the free LAME encoder.

[JJBiener]

Sonar can use the LAME encoder as well. I have both LAME and Cakewalk installed and both work well. I had a $20 voucher and used it to get the encoder for nothing.

[A.M. Gold]

Actually I should take it back that Reaper uses LAME. I have LAME installed and I know Reaper 4 works well rendering mp3's though. My previous DAW was Tracktion and it used LAME.

[Harry_HH]

This is a good question and I'll follow the responses as I know basically nothing about it! SONAR requires you to pay extra for the MP3 exporting, so I use Audacity and usually use the highest setting (320 kbps). But there are other settings you can make there too, such as bit rate mode and channel mode.

I've used Audacity often as well. But which is your source file:
original master file or dithered file - which gives the best result?

Also: I'd like to hear what is the most common way to generate MP3s'among the Live users. Live export doesn't include MP3 option.
And: those who use Ozone, is there MP3 option as an output file? (I just glanced through the "Ozone Dithering Guide" and "Mastering with Ozone" but didn't find anything aobut the MP3 in those.)

I'd like to hear comments concerning the role of dithering in MP3 format - are the MP3s'usually dithered? (I knwo that some people don't believe in dithering at all, but that's an other story).

Harry

[BertKoor]

I think it's possible to make MP3 files directly from 24bit or 32bit masters.
That skips the dithering stage.

Me thinks it's all irrelevant anyway. Tracks are so damned loud today that you won't hear a difference with truncated instead of dithered versions. Add to that that when you listen to MP3 files, you're hearing a reconstruction anyway, only resembling the original. Minute details like dithering noise fall away pretty quickly.

[Shabdahbriah]

I've used Audacity often as well. But which is your source file: original master file or dithered file - which gives the best result?

I'd like to hear comments concerning the role of dithering in MP3 format - are the MP3s'usually dithered? (I know that some people don't believe in dithering at all, but that's an other story).

Dances very slowly around the dithering 'can-of-worms'...(cough)

IMHO, though it is "common-place" to dither before or as one saves/converts an audio file to "CD quality" 16/44.1, its *perceived* benefits or efficacy if you will, for many types of music - particularly loud music, is arguable.

"Soft" (low volume) recordings, like (mellow) strings or an acoustic guitar or even piano, will "benefit" (IMHO) far more than adding MORE "noise" to an already saturated file. You simply can't "hear" its "value".

So, use the "original" as an mp3 "source" if/when it is "pop" or "rock" or "DnB", or anything LOUD, but not a "soft" piece of music, particularly when there are a lot of 'silent' or near silent moments in the track/composition.

With the latter, I (personally) would dither (triangular, and shaped) before making the mp3.

YMMV

[2c]

[bezusheist]

i would not dither at all for mp3 conversion because it is just more noise to convert to mp3 and it messes with low level signals...

[Harry_HH]

i would not dither at all for mp3 conversion because it is just more noise to convert to mp3 and it messes with low level signals...

This comment referes to the attitude that dither is nonsense in general, I wouldn't like to lead the conversation to this direction.

If you accept dithering in mastering the track to the CD, and trust to those expert guys who have resarch how to increase the quality when downgrading the resolution , there should be even stronger motivation to dither the MP3 because you downgrade the MP3 even much more than in the case of creating CD-format from the DAW resolution (which is in most of the case higher than 16 bit, 44,1 Khz).

Let's assume in this thread that we accept the dithering in CD and think how to make the MP3s'as good as possible from that point.

Harry

[bezusheist]

i would not dither at all for mp3 conversion because it is just more noise to convert to mp3 and it messes with low level signals...

This comment referes to the attitude that dither is nonsense in general, I wouldn't like to lead the conversation to this direction.

If you accept dithering in mastering the track to the CD, and trust to those expert guys who have resarch how to increase the quality when downgrading the resolution , there should be even stronger motivation to dither the MP3 because you downgrade the MP3 even much more than in the case of creating CD-format from the DAW resolution (which is in most of the case higher than 16 bit, 44,1 Khz).

Let's assume in this thread that we accept the dithering in CD and think how to make the MP3s'as good as possible from that point.

Harry

no...i am 100% for dither when going from 32>24>16 bits but i find it causes more harm than good when converting to mp3...
converting bit depth is not the same as converting to mp3...
if you dither before mp3, it will only add to the artifacts...
i don't know if this is something that varies depending on the host used to make the mp3, but this is what i have experienced...

edit: i use Wave Editor and convert 32bfp > 320k mp3 w/ no dither...i also have logic and reaper but WE is the best option i have/found

[Harry_HH]

i would not dither at all for mp3 conversion because it is just more noise to convert to mp3 and it messes with low level signals...

This comment referes to the attitude that dither is nonsense in general, I wouldn't like to lead the conversation to this direction.

If you accept dithering in mastering the track to the CD, and trust to those expert guys who have resarch how to increase the quality when downgrading the resolution , there should be even stronger motivation to dither the MP3 because you downgrade the MP3 even much more than in the case of creating CD-format from the DAW resolution (which is in most of the case higher than 16 bit, 44,1 Khz).

Let's assume in this thread that we accept the dithering in CD and think how to make the MP3s'as good as possible from that point.

Harry

no...i am 100% for dither when going from 32>24>16 bits but i find it causes more harm than good when converting to mp3...
converting bit depth is not the same as converting to mp3...
if you dither before mp3, it will only add to the artifacts...

Can you kindly elaborate this opinion from the technical point of view.
What do you mean by saying that "converting bit depth is not the same as converting the MP3". You convert the bit debth when you downgrade the master to the MP3 - I see this analog to the downgrade to CD. If the "dither noice" increases the quality of the CD, why not the guality of the MP3?

And: My point was not that we should use dithered file from where we generate the MP3, but dither WHEN creating the MP3 from the original master resolution.

Harry

[sqigls]

I use Adobe Audition, it does a great job in my opinion. I usually use the batch convert tool to go from either 24/48 or 16/44 to a 320kbps Mpeg.
RE: dithering, I really think that is an over-rated argument. You'd REALLY have to be LOOKING for something to hear the difference.

[Harry_HH]

RE: dithering, I really think that is an over-rated argument. You'd REALLY have to be LOOKING for something to hear the difference.

Pls, lets not argue in this thread if the ditherig IN GENERAL is necessary at all or not. It's waste of time because the reality is that most of the DAWs include dithering (to the wav and aif), do we believe in dithering or not. Lets assume that we accept dithering in the CD format - then how this relate to generating the MP3? And in addition to that: how do you create your MP3 from your DAW? (E.g. Adobe Audition is more made for mastering tool but most common DAWs e.g. in semi-pro use are Cubase, Live and Logic). H.

[Mushy Mushy]

How do you create your MP3 of your own productions?

I click "Save as mp3" in SoundForge. Job done.