Confused about 2/4 time

[cj31387]

I'm studying the basics of music theory again, before I thought 4/4 would be 4 quarter notes in a measure, or 6/8 would be 6 8th notes in a measure, but if I do 2/4 that would be 2 quarter notes in a measure but here is where I am confused. A whole note should be 2 beats and fill up the measure, half would take 2 half notes to fill up the measure, and then half again would take up 4 quarter notes to make a measure, so the system just broke right there because it wouldn't be 2 quarter notes to be 2/4 it would be 4 quarter notes. I'm confused.

[nineofkings]

It would still be 2 quarter notes. 2/4 means two beats per measure, and each beat is a quarter note. Therefore a half note would be an entire measure, and whole notes wouldn't exist.

[JJBiener]

I'm studying the basics of music theory again, before I thought 4/4 would be 4 quarter notes in a measure, or 6/8 would be 6 8th notes in a measure, but if I do 2/4 that would be 2 quarter notes in a measure but here is where I am confused. A whole note should be 2 beats and fill up the measure, half would take 2 half notes to fill up the measure, and then half again would take up 4 quarter notes to make a measure, so the system just broke right there because it wouldn't be 2 quarter notes to be 2/4 it would be 4 quarter notes. I'm confused.

It is what it is. 2/4 is two quarter notes per measure. End of story. That means you can also use one half note, or four eighth notes, or a combination as long as they add up to two beats. You cannot use a whole note because it has four beats or a dotted half note because that has three beats. This isn't broken. This is how it words.

You will find it gets more complicated when you deal with compound time like 6/8 or complex time like 7/8, but that is for another topic.

[jancivil]

OTOH a whole rest can be used for any meter.

[cj31387]

That is exactly what got me confused. I thought well this way is right BUT, then a whole note can't exist. It seemed weird to me that a whole note could not exist and that's what got me confused. But yeah I am doing rests right now actually. For my homework I'm supposed to complete a bar in rests using all the rests but I got to 2/4 time and realized I couldn't use a whole rest. But Jancivil can you elaborate on how a whole rest can be used in any measure? Its probably as simple as it just can but is there a reason?

[qa2pir]

2/4 is a very strange idea since it's often just 4/4 with a subtle nuance that's not really verifiable other than as some arbitrary esoteric agreement which you should buy into to be A Musicion.

[cryophonik]

A whole (semibreve) rest is used in all time signatures to denote a full bar of rest, except 4/2, in which case you would use a double-whole (breve) rest.

[cryophonik]

2/4 is a very strange idea since it's often just 4/4 with a subtle nuance that's not really verifiable other than as some arbitrary esoteric agreement which you should buy into to be A Musicion.

Not necessarily. The difference typically lies in the way that notes are emphasized. In 4/4 time, the first beat (downbeat) gets the most emphasis, followed by a weak 2nd beat, a moderate emphasis on the 3rd beat, and a weak 4th beat. In contrast, 2/4 time consists of a strong downbeat and weak second beat. Try counting it out loud:

4/4: 1 2 3 4

2/4: 1 2 1 2

[jancivil]

That is exactly what got me confused. I thought well this way is right BUT, then a whole note can't exist. It seemed weird to me that a whole note could not exist and that's what got me confused. But yeah I am doing rests right now actually. For my homework I'm supposed to complete a bar in rests using all the rests but I got to 2/4 time and realized I couldn't use a whole rest. But Jancivil can you elaborate on how a whole rest can be used in any measure? Its probably as simple as it just can but is there a reason?

I don't think there is any reasoning to be had. it's conventional. I personally have used a breve rest for 4/2 but I've seen a whole rest. I guess if you wanted to make an argument for it 'a whole measure rest'.

[jancivil]

2/4 is a very strange idea since it's often just 4/4 with a subtle nuance that's not really verifiable other than as some arbitrary esoteric agreement which you should buy into to be A Musicion.

there is nothing strange or necessarily arbitrary about making decisions in music for musical reasons.

for instance, indicating the right feel: conducting 2/4 is down, up. the downbeat might be said to properly fall every two quarters; vs 4/4 where the conductor describes a diamond: down, left, right, up. The composer made a decision for a reason. You aren't privy to it, but you have decided it's meaningless? If I while I'm improvising a solo have conceptions of four quarter note beats as 2 x 2/4, 4/4, 2/2, or something else, it informs my phrasing and thought.

a person that's had this experience as a musician should not have your problem with the conception of this. You're using cute language (and the snotty tone) again to make yourself seem smart in an area of your particular ignorance. Doesn't work, trust me on that.

[jopy]

as others have noted, any performer who can't recognize and convey the difference in feel between 2/4 and 4/4 should turn in his union card.

[Hooj]

2/4 is a very strange idea since it's often just 4/4 with a subtle nuance that's not really verifiable other than as some arbitrary esoteric agreement which you should buy into to be A Musicion.

Not necessarily. The difference typically lies in the way that notes are emphasized. In 4/4 time, the first beat (downbeat) gets the most emphasis, followed by a weak 2nd beat, a moderate emphasis on the 3rd beat, and a weak 4th beat. In contrast, 2/4 time consists of a strong downbeat and weak second beat. Try counting it out loud:

4/4: 1 2 3 4

2/4: 1 2 1 2

This is absolutely not true. What about breakbeat and/or reggae where the off-beats are accentuated/emphasized (syncopation)?



'

[KBSoundSmith]

2/4 is a very strange idea since it's often just 4/4 with a subtle nuance that's not really verifiable other than as some arbitrary esoteric agreement which you should buy into to be A Musicion.

Not necessarily. The difference typically lies in the way that notes are emphasized. In 4/4 time, the first beat (downbeat) gets the most emphasis, followed by a weak 2nd beat, a moderate emphasis on the 3rd beat, and a weak 4th beat. In contrast, 2/4 time consists of a strong downbeat and weak second beat. Try counting it out loud:

4/4: 1 2 3 4

2/4: 1 2 1 2

This is absolutely not true. What about breakbeat and/or reggae where the off-beats are accentuated/emphasized (syncopation)?



'

It wouldn't be a special or notable effect if it wasn't going against the natural tendency. It is true.

For all of you having trouble with this, stand up and physically perform the differences between the time signatures; this is not hard, and is something you should have addressed in grade school.

[qa2pir]

lemme just say i think you're really transcending the barriers of whatever function time signatures have in music. they're a common framework, not a detailed instruction. emphasis on beat isn't dependent on features linearly determined by time signature. 2s and 4ths is as common as 1s and 3rds. it's all the same time signature. whether you wish to call it 4/4 or 2/4 or 1/4 isn't important. what matters is coherence.

[tapper mike]

2/4 is a very strange idea since it's often just 4/4 with a subtle nuance that's not really verifiable other than as some arbitrary esoteric agreement which you should buy into to be A Musicion.

Not necessarily. The difference typically lies in the way that notes are emphasized. In 4/4 time, the first beat (downbeat) gets the most emphasis, followed by a weak 2nd beat, a moderate emphasis on the 3rd beat, and a weak 4th beat. In contrast, 2/4 time consists of a strong downbeat and weak second beat. Try counting it out loud:

4/4: 1 2 3 4

2/4: 1 2 1 2

This is absolutely not true. What about breakbeat and/or reggae where the off-beats are accentuated/emphasized (syncopation)?



'

Reggie is not 2/4 Time it's 4/4 The accents are placed on the up (and) beat
OneANDTwoANDthreeANDFourAND

The determination of where the accent is laid is not accounted for in the time signature. Although generally when learning 4/4 an accent is placed on the One so you remember where you are in the beat. A straight 8 has no accents it's just 8th notes. Rock and Trad jazz frequently emphasis the 2 and 4 beats while still being considered 4/4 time.