Best limiter and compressor for Orch music?

[Artgiver]

Hi, i know this has probably been asked before but i searched here and at gearslutz and couldn't find any relevant answers for choosing the best mastering limiter and compressor for orchestral music (regardless of price). Vocals are also mixed in, along with a full (virtual) orchestra so that's important too.

I don't have the time to demo all of the high end plugins because i have a very short time span to spend on a really good limiter and compressor of which i'll mainly use for orchestral music. I posted the same question over at Gearsluts hoping to get an answer BEFORE i have to go back to work Monday.

Could someone direct me to the right ones? I don't mind if they color my songs a LITTLE, but that's it. Thanks. I do want them to be transparent though - as much as they possibly can be, but they don't have to be 'steril'. And i don't want the ones that cut off the peaks like the way it looks when you cut a sheet of papaer into with scissors leaving a straight edge on the them. I think they're called 'brickwall' limiters.

No freeware or cheap plugins since i believe in the principle "you get what you pay for" - just not Algorithmix though .

I already have Wavelab 7 and don't EVEN like the stock plugins it has. So can someone please direct me to the ones that are of high quaility, create 'definition', glues intruments together well, and is as transparent as possible?

Thanks. I really appreciate any help in helping me make the right decision!!

Timothy
(Oh, please no 'opinions' based solely on plugin "hype", but only help based on first hand experience and mastering knowledge, if possible, thanks!)

[Ah_Dziz]

are you composing for media? or for an album/ demo release?

[Artgiver]

..two songs, which will eventually be added to about 7 more, finally making up a CD, but i know how to 'normalize' them, EQ, balance out, etc, a CD. I just need a comp and limiter to phatten them up some (not make them 'louder'), define them, etc. Some of them sound kinda 'flat' even though they're mixed well.

[Ah_Dziz]

I would suggest the wonderful density compressor, but you don't want free so My second choice would be voxengo polysquasher. Those are the two I have personal experience with in the context you mention. I have also used the waves c4 compressor successfully on orchestral mixes that needed help.

[Artgiver]

Last time i tried the Voxengo stuff their comps all seemed to "pump" even at somewhat modest settings (if my memory serves me well). I'll try it out again though just to be sure. Thanks man. Also - Waves ..hmmm i haven't tried them out in awhile, the C4 never. I'll download the demo. What about the low line UAD card (Solo i think)? I read somewhere where they upgraded there 1176 comp whereby it blows the old one away, i don't know.

[PeterL]

Limiter:
PSP Xenon
Compressor (just a few that come to mind):
Voxengo Soniformer
TheGlue
IK Vintage Tube Compressor/Limiter model 670

[PeterL]

Last time i tried the Voxengo stuff their comps all seemed to "pump" even at somewhat modest settings (if my memory serves me well). I'll try it out again though just to be sure.

Polysquasher doesn't pump as far as I remember.
Very transparent compressor, btw.
Nonetheless I prefer Soniformer when compression should be most transparent.

[Artgiver]

hmmm, i'll download the demo and try it out again. Thanks dude.

[antithesist]

Based on first hand experience and mastering knowledge, I'd say that's kind of a tough one. As with most things, it's a whatever works scenario, but I think more so. From your description and my personal preference, I would avoid multi-band, though I would try both parallel and upward compression with a few to several best guess compressor candidates.

I promise you that other than for features, which compressor is used might matter a little or a lot. Usually, settings matter more. On the other hand, multi-band might be just the ticket, but I wouldn't start there. Given what I'm imagining, EQ and volume/compressor automation are probably a lot more important than which limiter is used. In fact, I might only just touch the limiter, unless there some percussive, dynamic events to deal with.

Out of my stable, something like PSP mastercomp might be the first thing I would try, along with any decent limiter and EQ. This might be kind of like trying to tell someone who knows how to drive a motorcycle, how to drive a car or vice versa, though.

Oh, if you're mixing it too, try to let track and group compression share the lifting. I've found that with sequenced samples, a little compression can go a long way, depending on sequenced dynamics, etc. But, a little can also give some movement, especially if done in stages.

[Artgiver]

Thanks antithesist, i'll be using the 'recommended plugins' on songs already mixed down. I already have a pro grade EQ just not a comp and limiter. Maybe some slight saturation would help as well, hence i was thinking about getting Decapitator, i think it's called, for warmth. Two songs i'm thinking of in particular aren't very 'big' and 'open' sounding. They have plenty of dynamics yet are somewhat lifeless (not referring to EQ really though i may use an exciter sparingly).

Anyway, a Multiband comp sounds interesting. Don't know of the high grade ones though. I'm through mixing for awhile - at this point anyway - as i've recently finished the songs i'm going to use for our first CD.
They're already mixed down and ready to be mastered - and i want to do it instead of sending them to a ME.

The only demoes i've tried so far is Solaria II, i think it's called, and a limiter, both by Flux. They sounded and worked pretty well, but i'm still not satisfied. I also tried Pro-L by Fabfilter and it seemed to 'pump' too much. I did like Pro-C though. Don't know what to try next at this point.

[antithesist]

Pumping seems to mean different things to different people. For what I consider it to be, nearly any compressor with variable ratio, attack and release should be able to be made to pump or not to pump (that is the question). Seriously though, I think you need something with parallel capabilities built-in: The Glue, SSL X-Comp, PSP mastercomp that I mentioned etc. I don't have those first two, but I'm almost certain the have wet/dry capability. One of the basic ideas with parallel is that you are blending the compressed signal with the uncompressed signal.

I don't remember much about Solera other than that I think it combines all four of their original single dynamics processors in one. Then they have a monster beyond that, which maybe where parallel comes in (Alchemist, maybe?). Anyway, the Flux stuff is very powerful, but can be a tweaking nightmare. They also have two limiters now, but I digress. The Fabfilter limiter is nice, too. That one, the newer Flux or Elephant, should be fine at little to medium gain reduction. That all depends on the settings and material, though.

Man, saturation, that's a whole other ball of wax. I've hardly used it in mastering, other than what might be inherent from a particular processor. I have used sparing amounts of Sonnox Inflator and the Inflaty stuff in their limiter and dynamics. Decapitator for mastering? What's the world coming to? But, if it gets there... I've never tried it. Maybe it can do subtle, non-fatal too, like Cut Myself Shaving or That's Going to Leave a Mark. Back to compression: don't forget about low ratios, like less than two. I'm fond of 1.2 to 1 with a soft knee and low threshold to get it to move about a dB and a half. That might follow some parallel compression for body and loudness.

[sockofgold]

I just need a comp and limiter to phatten them up some (not make them 'louder'), define them, etc. Some of them sound kinda 'flat' even though they're mixed well.

Not sure if I'm missing your point, but it sounds like a saturation type of plugin might help you more than dynamics processing.

Something like Voxengo Varisaturator or Toneboosters Reelbus might help you out quite a bit.

Varisaturator has few presets that are basically "sound-good buttons," that just instantly make the audio fuller and more alive. Works nicely both on individual channels and on the master buss.

Reelbus is mostly just for the master buss, but again, it does what it sounds like you are looking for--just makes the source material a little less stale.

YMMV, I guess, but these two make it on every mix I do, regardless of genre (including orchestral).

[Artgiver]

Hmmm i'll try them out too then, thanks sockofgold. I bet that Slate Fg-X or whatever it's called would add a nice touch - gotta demo it as well. TOO many choices for a busy man, AUGHHH!

"Decapitator for mastering?"

Well, i would use it very sparingly just to warm it up some.
Thanks for the thoughts. I'm slowly reaching a decision .

[@midnight]

Fabfilter stuff would be pretty good for this application. Transparent, yet good.

[wakax]

from my experience:
Voxengo Elephant