Live 9 mixing tools video

[kmonkey]

PDC was introduced in Version 6 and has worked fine for me (windows), I see the odd post about it (normally a rant, must be frustrating if it isn't working for you!) but I don't think that many people have a problem with 'plug in' instruments (note; some plug ins have had issues 'reporting' the correct delay).

PDC is working fine audible but visualy automation have problems so people can have bad time with it - other host apps don't have this problem

[juansep]

i hope they fixed the pdc.. i really believe that's the reason for a long delay, as they needed to probably rewrite alot of the engine.

Can you or anyone else elaborate on what the PDC issues are? I have never really noticed any issues with PDC, but I don't really ever do any mixing in Live, so my sessions are usually fairly bereft of the kind of heavy mixing plugins that might trigger these types of issues. I'm curious, though.

Try using LFOTool (to simulate sidechaining 1/4) after using Fabfilter saturn and other vsts, you'll see it doesn't ducks properly in time. Tried the same chain in FL, it ducks perfectly in time (this means is not any plugins fault, but live's). The PDC problems increase as the load of the project becomes heavier (more plugins, 3rd party vsts, etc).

So no, it doesn't work audibly nor visually. It just doesn't work properly, period.

[kenporter]

the only reason I stopped using ableton live is because I can't control the transport with shortcuts lol. I hope they don't add that because then I'll have to give it another chance.

You know you can use key mapping to map things like the transport controls and then save it as a default template. For example, I've mapped my click, loop on/off, punch in/out, even the MIDI note preview in the clip view. I've been doing this for years and it works great...

Ken

[coroknight]

i hope they fixed the pdc.. i really believe that's the reason for a long delay, as they needed to probably rewrite alot of the engine.

Can you or anyone else elaborate on what the PDC issues are? I have never really noticed any issues with PDC, but I don't really ever do any mixing in Live, so my sessions are usually fairly bereft of the kind of heavy mixing plugins that might trigger these types of issues. I'm curious, though.

Try using LFOTool (to simulate sidechaining 1/4) after using Fabfilter saturn and other vsts, you'll see it doesn't ducks properly in time. Tried the same chain in FL, it ducks perfectly in time (this means is not any plugins fault, but live's). The PDC problems increase as the load of the project becomes heavier (more plugins, 3rd party vsts, etc).

So no, it doesn't work audibly nor visually. It just doesn't work properly, period.

This has been driving me crazy with Live. I've been trying to make an envelope in VolumeShaper (like LFOTool), and when the delay changes the envelope shifts all over the place.

Also, the higher the the cpu load the more track automation shifts all over the place.

It's incredibly annoying to work with.

[dusted william]

i hope they fixed the pdc.. i really believe that's the reason for a long delay, as they needed to probably rewrite alot of the engine.

Can you or anyone else elaborate on what the PDC issues are? I have never really noticed any issues with PDC, but I don't really ever do any mixing in Live, so my sessions are usually fairly bereft of the kind of heavy mixing plugins that might trigger these types of issues. I'm curious, though.

Try using LFOTool (to simulate sidechaining 1/4) after using Fabfilter saturn and other vsts, you'll see it doesn't ducks properly in time. Tried the same chain in FL, it ducks perfectly in time (this means is not any plugins fault, but live's). The PDC problems increase as the load of the project becomes heavier (more plugins, 3rd party vsts, etc).

So no, it doesn't work audibly nor visually. It just doesn't work properly, period.

I've never had this problem, and I use LFOTool quite a bit.

Can you create an exact example that will demonstrate this, so I can figure out what to look out for?

[sockofgold]

Try using LFOTool (to simulate sidechaining 1/4) after using Fabfilter saturn and other vsts, you'll see it doesn't ducks properly in time. Tried the same chain in FL, it ducks perfectly in time (this means is not any plugins fault, but live's). The PDC problems increase as the load of the project becomes heavier (more plugins, 3rd party vsts, etc).

So no, it doesn't work audibly nor visually. It just doesn't work properly, period.

Thanks for the explanation. To be honest, I'm not even sure what LFOTool is, so I guess I don't have to worry about that too much.

But at least I know what to look out for. From what you're saying, it sounds like the issue is with plugins that require host sync, but not actually with any plugins' audio drifting due to improper delay compensation. That's more what I thought people were talking about. Still annoying, though, and I appreciate your explanation.

[juansep]

i hope they fixed the pdc.. i really believe that's the reason for a long delay, as they needed to probably rewrite alot of the engine.

Can you or anyone else elaborate on what the PDC issues are? I have never really noticed any issues with PDC, but I don't really ever do any mixing in Live, so my sessions are usually fairly bereft of the kind of heavy mixing plugins that might trigger these types of issues. I'm curious, though.

Try using LFOTool (to simulate sidechaining 1/4) after using Fabfilter saturn and other vsts, you'll see it doesn't ducks properly in time. Tried the same chain in FL, it ducks perfectly in time (this means is not any plugins fault, but live's). The PDC problems increase as the load of the project becomes heavier (more plugins, 3rd party vsts, etc).

So no, it doesn't work audibly nor visually. It just doesn't work properly, period.

I've never had this problem, and I use LFOTool quite a bit.

Can you create an exact example that will demonstrate this, so I can figure out what to look out for?

just load up massive (if you dont have it try sylenth or other synth) and use some 3rd party vsts, load 3 or 4, if you have fabfilter saturn, or others, and lastly in the chain load LFOTool, set it to duck as usual 1/4 sidechain, record the file or bounce it, load it up in the grid and you'll see its not ducking properly, it drives me nuts.

This has been driving me crazy with Live. I've been trying to make an envelope in VolumeShaper (like LFOTool), and when the delay changes the envelope shifts all over the place.

Also, the higher the the cpu load the more track automation shifts all over the place.

Exactly, the higher the cpu, the worse the PDC issue is.

[coroknight]

Here's an example of the PDC problem:


Looking at the image you can see a simple kick drum sample, with an instance of Ozone and then an instance of volumeshaper. As you can see in volumeshaper the kick drum is delayed slightly. Without the instance of Ozone the delay isn't there and the kickdrum is aligned perfectly to the left.

[horsma]

Has anyone tried this solution to problem.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... -work.html

[pedx1ng]

Yes there is a known issue with delay compensation in Live. A couple issues at least, actually. One is that automation is not delay compensated.

Another big issue is described in this thread:

https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=157048

Here is a snippet from what Ableton employee dom wrote on page 9 of the thread (I think he is now with Bitwig actually):

What it does not, is compensating automation or what the Live GUI is showing (moving meters etc.), just as we always stated.

Even more important for this thread: timing depending plugins like camelspace or beatrepeat poll the transport timing information from the host to work correctly in time. In Live's case, as well with some other hosts, all plugins get the same global timing and normally this is just fine, of course - but as soon as such a timing depending plugin sits behind another plugin that causes latency, it would need its own special timing information that incorporates also the latency that gets introduced before it receives its data. But as i mentioned: Live does not offer this feature yet, just as it does not offer automation compensation - and both are pretty huge points on the feature wishlist.

[stillshaded]

the only reason I stopped using ableton live is because I can't control the transport with shortcuts lol. I hope they don't add that because then I'll have to give it another chance.

You know you can use key mapping to map things like the transport controls and then save it as a default template. For example, I've mapped my click, loop on/off, punch in/out, even the MIDI note preview in the clip view. I've been doing this for years and it works great...

Ken

indeed. However the controls I want aren't available to be mapped.

In most daws (logic, cubase, studio one, fl studio etc) you can move the playback position forwards or backwards with a shortcut. In studio one, which is what I use now, I can use + and - to move by the global quantize, and shift + +/- to move by bars. Very important for the way I work because I do a lot of tedious midi/ automation and can't be going to click on the freakin timeline at the top every time I want to start from a different position. Not to mention that in the midi clip view you can't even change the playback position permanently by clicking. I do a lot of auditioning pf micro edits to see how they sound and it's just too time consuming in live.

[djgroovy]

You might be in luck if the icon that looks like an automation point next to the global record button turns out to do what I think it might do.

Nicely spotted. Would be great if it does.

[dusted william]

Here's an example of the PDC problem:


Looking at the image you can see a simple kick drum sample, with an instance of Ozone and then an instance of volumeshaper. As you can see in volumeshaper the kick drum is delayed slightly. Without the instance of Ozone the delay isn't there and the kickdrum is aligned perfectly to the left.

you're right...

Wow that sucks.

-dw

[RawTech]

Here's an example of the PDC problem:


Looking at the image you can see a simple kick drum sample, with an instance of Ozone and then an instance of volumeshaper. As you can see in volumeshaper the kick drum is delayed slightly. Without the instance of Ozone the delay isn't there and the kickdrum is aligned perfectly to the left.

I actually don't see the problem here. Why should live compensate the PDC in between a device chain. A host should normally compensate the latency of a whole track. Can you please repeat this test not adding the volume shaper to the audio track. Instead please put it on the master output.

If the latency is still there then it is really a PDC problem.

So to sum up the testcase:

Kickdrum Track: Contains the Kickdrum sampler + Ozone

Master Output: Contains the Volume shaper

[IDM Superstar]

I actually don't see the problem here. Why should live compensate the PDC in between a device chain. A host should normally compensate the latency of a whole track. Can you please repeat this test not adding the volume shaper to the audio track. Instead please put it on the master output.

If the latency is still there then it is really a PDC problem.

So to sum up the testcase:

Kickdrum Track: Contains the Kickdrum sampler + Ozone

Master Output: Contains the Volume shaper

Paralel effects processing. You can't do paralel effects processing.

In 2012 you can't do paralel effects processing.

2012

$500 software

2012

$500

There is no problem with this at all, what kind of weirdo wants to do sound design? Please add more signature gigabyte sample packs and shovelware retro synth preset bundles.