BlueARP VST Arpeggiator development - let's discuss! (Apple M1 ready, 4K)

[graywolf2004]

GateTime at 95%: Double occured somewhere between beat 255 and 258.
GateTime at 1%: Yes, sound still there.
Anything else you want me to try, just let me know.

OK, thanks. We're getting closer Double note occured right on another input key or not? (it's important, I think it may happen on key change only). In general - did it become less frequent?
PS. Gatetime 1% shows that extremely short notes still make sound (just to be sure).

[ENV1]

Double note occured right on another input key or not?

Cant remember, but i can tell you that the glitch occurs whether the sequence is transposed or not. (I had already checked that because if it only happened right after a transposition it might have hinted at something simple like a buffer problem.) To verify i have just checked again. Only enabled latch, pressed B3 and let the sequence run. Glitch occured precisely on beat 256. (Which might be important, since this is the second time that i saw it happening at exactly that time. May well be that beat 256 is a position where it will always happen, regardless of other occurences. I will test that a couple more times when i have more time.)

In general - did it become less frequent?

Im afraid i cant answer that since it happens very irregularly to begin with. There are times when it happens almost immediately after starting the sequence, and then there are times where it will run perfectly fine for hundrets of beats. (Like in that last test.) Like i said in my initial post, so far i could not make out any pattern at all. It appears to be happening totally at random and not related to transpositions. (Nor to wraparound as it happens in the middle of the sequence as well.) Thats about all i know for sure.

[graywolf2004]

ENV1 I didn't fix it yet, but I can reproduce it (with Synth1 VST) and found some clues. It happens only on pattern re-cycle (step 1) and didn't find any solid pattern to.
All Still implementing banks. Had some problems with it, but now most of them are solved. Not sure to post an update this weekend, but if not, then in the middle of the week. Want to finish with the banks.

[graywolf2004]

Today I decided to have some fun
Live performance in FL Studio with 3 instances of BlueARP:

PS. Banks seem to work in general, thinking how to shove patch browser into this interface...

[graywolf2004]

Some thoughts about banks and switching presets. The question is - either to make any program editable or not?
Say you selected program 5, adjusted it, then switched to program 6 and back to 5. Here 2 options are possible:
1. You loose your changes made to program 5
2. Changes are still there

By default, as I understand VST logic, p.1 shold happen. But there's an option in FL Studio VST Wrapper settings "Allow program editing". If you check it, you'll have p.2 scenario (not sure about this kind of setting in other hosts).

But I found that it's possible (by ignoring some call from host) to force it to p.2 always. So whatever program you change, this changes are saved immediately and recall on next project load (if you want to get back, just reload the original bank from file). For me it looks more convenient. What do you think?

[ENV1]

I can reproduce it and found some clues. It happens only on pattern re-cycle (step 1) and didn't find any solid pattern to.

Im certain that i saw it happening in the middle of the sequence too. Maybe it had/has to do with the fact that switching between OnBar and OnNote kind of screws with the position, (theres some serious skipping going on then - can make video if necessary), but whatever the cause, im positive that i have seen it happening at positions other than wraparound as well.

1. You loose your changes
2. Changes are still there

Thats a toughie. Obviously there are good reasons for both approaches, (i.e. theres no 'right' or 'wrong' here), which means in the end it will boil down to personal preference.

Anyway, since you asked for opinions; in the case of Arps/Seqs i for one definitely prefer option 1. (Changes will not be kept in memory.) That way, if i edit a sequence/arpeggio, and dont like where it goes, i can quickly go back to the initial pattern without having to reload the entire bank or reinstanciate the plugin. (Which by the way would necessarily also clear/replace any other slots i may have already populated with non-bank patterns as well.) If i see that i like a pattern, and want to keep it, i can always save it into an .fxp and then load that .fxp as needed into the desired slot.

[Crackbaby]

I like 2.

It makes the patterns and arpeggiator feel "reel" somehow. That you really edit something, not just a ghost of 1's and 0's

[Crackbaby]

Beautiful arping there btw! Didn't listen to it until now. Bassline might be a bit too heavy though, it comes in like an earthquake Always interesting to see/hear how other people use things.

[graywolf2004]

Thanks! I thought everyone will prefer p.2, but what ENV1 says is reasonable. What I hate about p.1 and common VST plugins behaviour is this:
Suppose you loaded a plugin, created and arpeggio (by default it's in preset 0), then you accidentally switched to preset 1 and oops - you lose your work. So take care and save to .fxp any preset you gonna use. Or don't switch programs.

Maybe a compromise solution like this?
1. Once you loaded any bank (including default "factory" bank), it creates a backup copy of the whole bank in memory (which is also saved as a part of the project)
2. If you want to recall any preset you spoiled, you select "recall single program" or "recall entire bank" from the menu. This is the way it works in some hardware synths I know
3. It will double the memory usage (currenlty 128 Kb for a bank of 64 presets), but who cares with today's teraBytes and gigaHerts'es?

[graywolf2004]

Addition to my last post. I thought of it and I personally prefer the idea of editable programs by default, since it's possible to switch programs on the fly and create more flexible performances. So I want all my changes to be immediatelly saved. And it's easy to implement this "recall program" feature as a compromise solution - it will allow to play with certain program, but not to loose it's original state.

The question here is how to recall a program:
1. Recall original program state from the loaded bank
2. Recall program state from the moment of project load

I mean say you loaded some bank (state A), changed program 2 (to state B), saved your project. Then you loaded your project (program 2 is still in state B), changed program 2 again (state C).
Now if you recall program 2, according to p.1 it will revert to state A, according to p.2 - to state B.

Which option is better?

[Shabdahbriah]

Addition to my last post. I thought of it and I personally prefer the idea of editable programs by default, since it's possible to switch programs on the fly and create more flexible performances. So I want all my changes to be immediatelly saved. And it's easy to implement this "recall program" feature as a compromise solution - it will allow to play with certain program, but not to loose it's original state.

The question here is how to recall a program:
1. Recall original program state from the loaded bank
2. Recall program state from the moment of project load

I mean say you loaded some bank (state A), changed program 2 (to state B), saved your project. Then you loaded your project (program 2 is still in state B), changed program 2 again (state C).
Now if you recall program 2, according to p.1 it will revert to state A, according to p.2 - to state B.

Which option is better?

1) loaded some bank (state A), changed program 2 (to state B), saved your project.

2) Then you load your project (program 2 is still in state B), changed program 2 again (state C).

3) Load your project without saving "AS" its "new" state: program 2 remains state B

Now if you recall program 2, according to p.1 it will revert to state A, according to p.2 - to state B

Both: program 2 is a new program as you "saved it" to state B.

The original "bank" should remain unaltered IF you include a "SAVE AS" function.

An alternative is auto-sequential saves. e.g. "save sequentially" as you work, (suffix each save) whether "bank" of "preset" (fxb/fxp) a,b,c... 01,02,03... etc.

Say you load a bank: "Noony-noo_Arp", make some changes and hit a SS (save sequential) 'button', and it gets saved as: Noony-noo_Arp01, (next) Noony-noo_Arp02, etc.

I worked with the dev to implement this and other fxb/fxp features (like randomizing) in Cantabile (host) which it does really well.

[2c]

[graywolf2004]

3) Load your project without saving "AS" its "new" state: program 2 remains state B

Right. This is the way it should behave.

So, according to my p.2, each time you load DAW project, bluearp creates backup copy of the entire bank in memory, and allows you to recall any program (= copy this program from backup bank to the actual bank). This backup copy will "live" only inside one project open-close session (you can save your project in between, but backup copy will stay the same).

In p.1 I mean a more tricky thing - backup copy will be created on initial plugin load, or when you load a new bank, and will be saved as a part of the project. But it looks more tricky, since backup copy may live across several project open\close sessions. So I think the behaviour mentioned before is more logical.

PS. I'm afraid I made it too tangled...
But anyway, I'll upload an update this Friday night and you better check how it works
Thanks for the point about sequential saves. Not sure it's necessary here, but the idea is good.

[Shabdahbriah]

PS. I'm afraid I made it too tangled...
But anyway, I'll upload an update this Friday night and you better check how it works
Thanks for the point about sequential saves. Not sure it's necessary here, but the idea is good.

YW. Will do. I very much look forward to it... thank you!

"Sequential saves" (fxp) is kind of a poor-mans "undo".

[osiris]

Where to download the latest version? Does it now have presets? Thanks.

[graywolf2004]

Check the top of this thread. It saves presets, but not banks.
Next version will save banks also.
Hint: better don't rely on saving presets now, cause preset format is not "stabilized" yet. Next version 1.07 probably won't load saved presets from the current version 1.06.