Improving music/keyboard skills... what to do

[vurt]

I'm learning a new song today. It's challenging though not the fastest song I've ever learned. It requires some self discipline. I'm doing it in an unfamiliar tuning. I carry with me a standard of excellence how well I perform the song matters to me. I know when I perform well and when I perform poorly. I gain enjoyment when I perform well. I also know that the things I learn as a form of muscle memory will affect my playing and treatment of other songs that I may write or improvise on. Most stuff comes easier to me now because I've done the hard work to get to where I am. The stuff that doesn't come easy, well it just means I have to work harder to get there. I understand that. My standard of excellence and my prior successes tell me that if I work at it rather then wish it I'll get to where I'll need to be.

Sure, I don't need to learn a new song or in a way that is completely foreign to me. Having more learning experience expands on creative abilities not diminishes them. Being aware of your own skills as a musician and the skills other musicians have and understanding how they got to that level of musicianship. Then accepting with humility that maybe you aren't there yet and applying yourself to the goal is the first step in a long journey. Musicians are humble in the acceptance that they couldn't do all the things they may be able to do now through hard work. If they seem a little egotistical because they speak the musician speak and can operate in the collective musical mind. It's because they applied themselves. They know how the game is played on they play by the rules. Tempo, timing, key, chords. Working with others. Even substitution has best practices.

You can call yourself Mother Goose. That doesn't make you a real goose. And the real geese as well as the ganders will know.

About Work
Heck getting out of bed is work. Maybe not hard work but it does require energy.

Sometimes work is fun. Sometimes it's not. I don't have to take a shower, brush my teeth change my underwear. No one has to do anything. If you think you have to you'll might be putting up more of an effort to avoid it then it takes to do the thing. I want to go to work today. I want to go because having a roof over my head and food in my stomach are things I want and believe I need. Sure I could always starve to death in the frigid wilderness. Even hermits want to eat, the don't have to the option of starving is there for them if they choose it. So you don't have to work to get better or even maintain the same level of musicianship you've always had. However if it's something that you want. Well that means you want to not have to do the things required to make that a reality.

So if you treat anything as "Having to" You don't have to. It's okay you don't "have to" answer to yourself or anyone else.

I just had some popcorn because I wanted it. I didn't wish it and I didn't have to eat it. I enjoyed the popcorn. The popcorn didn't magically appear. I bought the popcorn I wanted to buy the popcorn because I wanted to eat the popcorn. The popcorn didn't cook itself I didn't have to cook the popcorn but If really wanted the popcorn so I wanted to cook the popcorn. Conclusion. If you really want something then you also want the things to happen that put it in place.

Now lets talk about needs.
Do you need to be a musician? Do you need the acceptance of being a musician? No. Needy people need things. Are you a needy or needful person? People prioritize needs over wants. If you don't need something then it's less of a priority in your life then things you do need. People don't always get what they want even if they plan for it and work towards it. When I was buying popcorn I also wanted coffee. Not just any coffee my favorite brand of coffee.
I wanted it really bad but I didn't need it. They were out. I'm addicted to coffee. I need coffee. So I choose a different brand. If I couldn't live without the brand and I was needful of it to complete me I wouldn't have simply accepted something less. I would have gone out on foot walking 6 to 10 to 20 or even 30 miles because I needed my favorite brand of coffee. But I didn't need my favorite brand of coffee enough. I only needed coffee.

You can't always get what you want. But sometimes you can get what you need.


to summarize
You don't HAVE TO anything.
If you are a wishful person you can wish your life away never coming close to that thing.

If you are a wanting person you accept that there are stages to getting it and wanting makes those stages a reality.

If you are a needful person. Then you focus on the desired thing with everything you have and don't stop till you get it.

Me I'm not steve vai. I'm not so needful that I need to practice 12 to 16 hours a day. I was needful enough that I needed myself into the level of musicianship that I knew I'd need if I were to gain acceptance of my peers and retain a professional demeanor. I'm also wantful and right now I want to go back to learning this song that I want to learn. Not just wish I could.

can you summarise that into a soundbite or two. take the edge off the boredom factor a bit...

[robogone]

can you summarise that into a soundbite or two. take the edge off the boredom factor a bit...

I'll give it a go:

How's that?

[vurt]

?

[Tricky-Loops]

Better take this:

[Hink]

Nobody has questioned that making (good) music is hard work. Sometimes it can be fun, too, but most times it's more work than fun. Studying music theory and production techniques are work, too. If I work for months to create a whole song, why I shouldn't be aloud to call myself "musician"? Because I've made a filter sweep?:shock:

Someone who just stacks 4 loops of a construction kit together, that's not a musician. Someone who creates only filter sweeps isn't, either. Someone who works as a DJ, doesn't have to be a musician at all. But everyone who creates a whole song or part of a song, actually is a musician.

so someone who performs for a living as a cover musician is not a musician by your standards?

But everyone who creates a whole song or part of a song, actually is a musician.

I think you need to just worry about yourself and leave your unwarranted and out of line judgment of others out of things. You post following this one is an embarrassment for you imho (and this one), picking on what looks to be a homeless man making music any way he can...I say that is the epitome of what a musician is...not your bizarre extreme concepts.

Just curious, by your standards I am a musician (but I dont need you to tell me that) but I take it one step further by building some of my instruments and other gear (check the diy forum). Does that give me license to look down others because they have to buy their instruments?

BTW I am not theory ignorant, I have learned even more here, other places, by reading and by practicing for many, many years (started playing trumpet in 1969 or 1970, started playing guitar seriously in 1971 though I could play some folk songs on my sister's guitar in 1967) I cannot sight read, but I have a fair working grasp of theory. I have a lot more to learn but am not ignorant either. There are many here with far more knowledge than me here and other places and I'm always willing to listen and learn. Are you now going to suggest there are degrees of being a musician and you as well as others are better than me because you know more theory?

Shouldn't we support each other and not judge each other? Shouldn't we be above that? What is the point of being an elitist?

I will bring this story up again because it applies...in the 80s I worked for a moving company owned by two brothers...one was the brains, the other the brawn. The one that was brawn dropped out of school in Jr high and was teased often for what others perceived as being stupid (he could not read). This so-called stupid man said to me "you can learn something from everyone, how smart you are or they are doesn't matter". Do you see the point?

[Tricky-Loops]

Nobody has questioned that making (good) music is hard work. Sometimes it can be fun, too, but most times it's more work than fun. Studying music theory and production techniques are work, too. If I work for months to create a whole song, why I shouldn't be aloud to call myself "musician"? Because I've made a filter sweep?:shock:

Someone who just stacks 4 loops of a construction kit together, that's not a musician. Someone who creates only filter sweeps isn't, either. Someone who works as a DJ, doesn't have to be a musician at all. But everyone who creates a whole song or part of a song, actually is a musician.

so someone who performs for a living as a cover musician is not a musician by your standards?

But everyone who creates a whole song or part of a song, actually is a musician.

I think you need to just worry about yourself and leave your unwarranted and out of line judgment of others out of things. You post following this one is an embarrassment for you imho (and this one), picking on what looks to be a homeless man making music any way he can...I say that is the epitome of what a musician is...not your bizarre extreme concepts.

Just curious, by your standards I am a musician (but I dont need you to tell me that) but I take it one step further by building some of my instruments and other gear (check the diy forum). Does that give me license to look down others because they have to buy their instruments?

BTW I am not theory ignorant, I have learned even more here, other places, by reading and by practicing for many, many years (started playing trumpet in 1969 or 1970, started playing guitar seriously in 1971 though I could play some folk songs on my sister's guitar in 1967) I cannot sight read, but I have a fair working grasp of theory. I have a lot more to learn but am not ignorant either. There are many here with far more knowledge than me here and other places and I'm always willing to listen and learn. Are you now going to suggest there are degrees of being a musician and you as well as others are better than me because you know more theory?

Shouldn't we support each other and not judge each other? Shouldn't we be above that? What is the point of being an elitist?

I will bring this story up again because it applies...in the 80s I worked for a moving company owned by two brothers...one was the brains, the other the brawn. The one that was brawn dropped out of school in Jr high and was teased often for what others perceived as being stupid (he could not read). This so-called stupid man said to me "you can learn something from everyone, how smart you are or they are doesn't matter". Do you see the point?

You have COMPLETELY misunderstood me. I'm far far away from being elitist, and the image of the (homeless?) man should show that even people without common instruments can be musicians (even with pans). And, of course, people in cover bands are musicians, too.

[Hink]

Nobody has questioned that making (good) music is hard work. Sometimes it can be fun, too, but most times it's more work than fun. Studying music theory and production techniques are work, too. If I work for months to create a whole song, why I shouldn't be aloud to call myself "musician"? Because I've made a filter sweep?:shock:

Someone who just stacks 4 loops of a construction kit together, that's not a musician. Someone who creates only filter sweeps isn't, either. Someone who works as a DJ, doesn't have to be a musician at all. But everyone who creates a whole song or part of a song, actually is a musician.

so someone who performs for a living as a cover musician is not a musician by your standards?

But everyone who creates a whole song or part of a song, actually is a musician.

I think you need to just worry about yourself and leave your unwarranted and out of line judgment of others out of things. You post following this one is an embarrassment for you imho (and this one), picking on what looks to be a homeless man making music any way he can...I say that is the epitome of what a musician is...not your bizarre extreme concepts.

Just curious, by your standards I am a musician (but I dont need you to tell me that) but I take it one step further by building some of my instruments and other gear (check the diy forum). Does that give me license to look down others because they have to buy their instruments?

BTW I am not theory ignorant, I have learned even more here, other places, by reading and by practicing for many, many years (started playing trumpet in 1969 or 1970, started playing guitar seriously in 1971 though I could play some folk songs on my sister's guitar in 1967) I cannot sight read, but I have a fair working grasp of theory. I have a lot more to learn but am not ignorant either. There are many here with far more knowledge than me here and other places and I'm always willing to listen and learn. Are you now going to suggest there are degrees of being a musician and you as well as others are better than me because you know more theory?

Shouldn't we support each other and not judge each other? Shouldn't we be above that? What is the point of being an elitist?

I will bring this story up again because it applies...in the 80s I worked for a moving company owned by two brothers...one was the brains, the other the brawn. The one that was brawn dropped out of school in Jr high and was teased often for what others perceived as being stupid (he could not read). This so-called stupid man said to me "you can learn something from everyone, how smart you are or they are doesn't matter". Do you see the point?

You have COMPLETELY misunderstood me. I'm far far away from being elitist, and the image of the (homeless?) man should show that even people without common instruments can be musicians (even with pans). And, of course, people in cover bands are musicians, too.

Or grab some samples and make music like Madeon... I've seen so many people with music study on the university, big expensive studio and "daddy-pays-it-all" attitude, and all they've been creating were some boring independent rock songs that a 10-years-old could have made, too. They call themselves "professional musician", but they can't earn anything with their nasty "music"...

1. Sounds pretty judgmental too me and where I come from often elitism is the source of judgment. (but if I'm wrong it wot be the first time or the last)

2. I consider the computer a new age instrument and I'm old fart

Your point about the picture is my point so I'm glad we agree on that

[jancivil]

Honestly some people are not musicians and no matter how hard they try to be they will never be musicians. And for them I'll say this. Find your muse elsewhere. Being a musician will not complete you as a person. There are plenty of forms of self expression to involve yourself with.

I completely disagree. If you can put your finger on a keyboard you are a musician.

The world is full of advice such as "you can do anything if you put your mind to it" and "anything you put in you'll get back doublefold". Well I love mathematics...

If one day I decided to say I was a mathematician, and I could not legitimately show I was, people would scoff, there would be no respect. Would I then be able to bitch about the 'smell of exclusivity'? Criminy.

But oh, suddenly it's music we are talking about and anybody, whatsoever, can be said to be a musician out of just the desire to do it! Amazing.

mathematics involves the right answer.
in music there are no right answers.

that is simply idiotic.

[vurt]

yay! jans home!

[jancivil]

I've seen so many people with music study on the university, big expensive studio and "daddy-pays-it-all" attitude, and all they've been creating were some boring independent rock songs that a 10-years-old could have made, too. They call themselves "professional musician", but they can't earn anything with their nasty "music"..

So much for your entire argument then. There is your 'elitism' and boundary of quality. If I were to say to you what you do seems like something a ten-year-old would make, I would be a terrible elitist, but it's all good when you do it.

[jancivil]

I look for the right answer in everything that I do musically. You, vurt, just implied that music is just a great free-for-all.

Nothing is true, everything is permitted. conversely, if everything is true, then meaning vanishes.

[vurt]

You, vurt, just implied that music is just a great free-for-all.

thats how you read it perhaps.

[jancivil]

I say ignore all this nomenclature, grab a keyboard and start learning the stuff you need for what you want to do.

And if you want to call yourself a musician that's fine. The only people who will object are the usual suspects who put on the blinders and peddle their elitist bullshit here.

I didn't object to this. I wouldn't know if V0RT3X is a musician. I don't object to anything resembling this. Your straw man is a bad man, good for you for finding him.
I haven't seen anyone that did that. Here is a word with meaning and people chipping away at that meaning in order to do a number of things which Are Not Honest.


There is backstory to this thread. Even without it SJ Digriz has arrived at the same take as I have. there is this politically-tainted word 'elitist' here which has gotten to be ludicrous. We have arrived at a strange everything goes, nothing is truer than anything else point out of this discussion.

[jancivil]

You, vurt, just implied that music is just a great free-for-all.

thats how you read it perhaps.

what is there then, John? Are you going to, seriously, stand behind 'in music there are no right answers'? It's rather all-encompassing and absolute, is it not? Do you seriously believe it's a proper answer to what I said? There are wrong answers in music, actually. There are procedures in a particular practice style that produce better results, that if you ignore them you will produce worse results, per that style requirement. You do not make that vanish by some high-flying blanket assertion.

[Tricky-Loops]

I look for the right answer in everything that I do musically...Nothing is true...

So your right answers aren't true??