Ableton Live 9 announced

[sockofgold]

One thing though, doesn't live have a "set" value for panning laws? I know we've had these threads before were pan laws have indeed changed perception in how a host "sounds"

Yeah, exactly, that's the kind of thing I was getting at. The "same settings" from one DAW to the next might not actually be the exact same settings in reality, so it's really difficult to form an objective test. But, I think we all understand that what we are doing here is not scientific by any means, but more just fun, casual testing. At least I hope we all understand that.

[hibidy]

I do. I love talking and discussing this stuff but I don't take it too seriously. I mean, everything sounds "good" by and large. There is nothing there that can't be eq'ed or whatever that I can hear.

Still though, this idea of "tighter" is a troubling. I get that. So, it comes back to some the grumbles peeps are having in the regard.

Forget about the presidential election...........VOTE fix PDC and and "tightness" stuff in Ableton live!

[SWAN808]

thanks billcarrol for the test. im hearing the bass in the Live example seems higher in the mix...? or its clouding the mix a bit more-the growl of the bass drive seems to be higher which takes some of the space of the other tracks - is anyone else hearing that?...I wonder if its a level issue...either way the mix sounds more congested as if there is less headroom...but it could just be levels...its very interesting these tests. I mean something small like the way each DAW handles levels could contribute to a stark difference...

Did you mean once the tracks in Live were flattened the problem goes away?

In Sockofgolds test I prefer B

[ObsoleteAcc99]

[DELETED]

[grymmjack]

One thing though, doesn't live have a "set" value for panning laws? I know we've had these threads before were pan laws have indeed changed perception in how a host "sounds"

Not sure, if you right click the cross fader is this what you mean?

[Shabdahbriah]

One thing though, doesn't live have a "set" value for panning laws? I know we've had these threads before were pan laws have indeed changed perception in how a host "sounds"

Not sure, if you right click the cross fader is this what you mean?

No... "panning laws" is a totally 'nother (circular) "can-of-worms".

[hibidy]

Shouldn't be though. It's very useful when mixing.

[headquest]

I really hope it's fixed and what i am reading is wrong. After defending abes for so long vs bitwig i'd feel like an idiot if this is released without that essential fundamental mixing feature fixed.

But for now we don't know whether Bitwig Studio has working PDC either

Must admit though, personally I've never picked up this problem with Live at all, compared for example with Reason where it is pretty obvious to anyone even at the demo stage

[hibidy]

I really hope it's fixed and what i am reading is wrong. After defending abes for so long vs bitwig i'd feel like an idiot if this is released without that essential fundamental mixing feature fixed.

But for now we don't know whether Bitwig Studio has working PDC either

Must admit though, personally I've never picked up this problem with Live at all, compared for example with Reason where it is pretty obvious to anyone even at the demo stage

Oh, is that right? Hmmmmmmmm, well, again.........every *&^IO(&&^%*&^ing host

[billcarroll]

***MINOR SPOILERS, BUT NO ACTUAL GIVEAWAYS AS TO WHICH FILE GOES WITH WHICH DAW***


Well, after listening, I can definitely say that I hear a difference between the three. And I would agree that Live is probably the "flattest" and least pleasing of them all.

But honestly, I am just not entirely convinced that it means "Cubase and Logic sound better than Live." The skeptic in me wants to believe that they just handle their internal settings differently, much like how the automation differences resulted in the filter being in a very different spot in one of your bounces.

Interesting test. It certainly proves that using the same settings between different DAWs may not get you the exact same output, but I'm not sure how much more than that I am willing to believe as scientific fact--I still don't give any credence to Zimmer's claim that Cubase "sounds better" than other DAWs...

Since the test was for me, I did the best I could at geting the DAW settings the same. Definitely not science. My workflow, my ears, and ultimately a test to help me decide which DAW sounded better. I've never used Cubase before, and I really expected Logic to win.

Here is my own test--it's a bit different sound than bill's.

It's a mix of plain old audio loops plus some VSTi's (ACE, Massive, and Superior Drummer). Then I sprinkled some random effects plugins around to try to mess up the PDC as much as possible (Voxformer, TB TimeMachine, The Drop, Alloy 2, TB Barricade, Etch, VRoom, TAL-Dub-2, and MFlanger). One is Live, one is Cubase, and one is Studio One.

I have my own opinions, but I'm curious to see if anyone else "hears" any differences. The waves certainly don't null, so they are definitely different. All are 24/44.1, and are slightly longer than bill's pieces. Drums come in around 30 seconds.

I am also not including the results, because I want people to post without having any chance to know which is which. I will post a list later on, though.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5976932/sockofgold-tests.zip

Thanks for posting another test. I'm going out on a limb without knowing how everything was done, and I'm going to give my first impression after listening to each file once.

A. my least favorite sounding. muddier and more flat. My guess = Ableton
B. my favorite of the bunch felt the most clear and open. My guess = Cubase
C. better and more clear than A but 2nd behind B. My guess = Logic

I'm excited to hear which was which. I'll stick with my answers even if I got the DAW wrong

[billcarroll]

thanks billcarrol for the test. im hearing the bass in the Live example seems higher in the mix...? or its clouding the mix a bit more-the growl of the bass drive seems to be higher which takes some of the space of the other tracks - is anyone else hearing that?...I wonder if its a level issue...either way the mix sounds more congested as if there is less headroom...but it could just be levels...its very interesting these tests. I mean something small like the way each DAW handles levels could contribute to a stark difference...

Did you mean once the tracks in Live were flattened the problem goes away?

In Sockofgolds test I prefer B

The Ableton example does sound muddier, and the bass is less defined and kind of in the way. The volume levels are the same, and I have no idea if each DAW handles volume differently. My best attempt to get the bass the same across all DAWs resulted in 3 different sounding basses.

As far as the timing issue goes, NI Maschine seemed to come pretty much in time for all 3 DAWs when I bounced to audio. Before bouncing timing differed the most in Ableton Live.

[billcarroll]

I do. I love talking and discussing this stuff but I don't take it too seriously. I mean, everything sounds "good" by and large. There is nothing there that can't be eq'ed or whatever that I can hear.

Still though, this idea of "tighter" is a troubling. I get that. So, it comes back to some the grumbles peeps are having in the regard.

Forget about the presidential election...........VOTE fix PDC and and "tightness" stuff in Ableton live!

Definitely all in good fun, except the part where I shell out some cold hard cash for Cubase

I think Ableton will fix the PDC issues before Live 9 is real eased, and I'll certainly upgrade when it is released. I'm hoping to hear better sound quality.

A few things I learned during testing will probably push me to Cubase for production work. I was surprised to find a lot in Cubase to fall in love with. Audio editing kicks ass, comping in midi and audio rocks, track routing makes sense, and I like how Cubase works with my Virus and other multitimbral instruments.

The only fair thing for me to say about the audio, is that apparently Cubase sounds better for the way I tend to work. I'm certain somebody can make a better sounding track in pretty much any other DAW, so I can only speak for the right DAW for my workflow.

[hibidy]

As far as the timing issue goes, NI Maschine seemed to come pretty much in time for all 3 DAWs when I bounced to audio. Before bouncing timing differed the most in Ableton Live.

I'ma have to play around with this. My initial thought were that live is basically the first host to where I can actually use maschine. (seriously, sonar and reaper are just basically INCOMPATIBLE )

Yeah, shelling for cubey.......um........I just went through that with live

You guys have it GOOD these days though, cubase was 800 bucks for version 4 (luckily, I got some mileage out of that)

[SWAN808]

yeah this test got me onto the Steinberg website looking at Cubase...problem is it feels like its a step back into the slightly over complicated DAW world...Im not sure I can do it...might wait for Bitwig in the hope its audio engine is an improvement...

[SWAN808]

My best attempt to get the bass the same across all DAWs resulted in 3 different sounding basses.

what was your method with the bass? I assume it was loading the vst, loading the preset and maintaining 0 db on the volume level?