I love Ableton Live

[hibidy]

@hibidy - The browser has sucked for many versions (6,7 and 8 to my knowledge). 9 is much better (IMO), but I'm still getting acquainted with L9, so I don't want to rush to either a favorable or negative opinion just yet!

As long as it's coming soon I'd be plenty pissed trying to do this on serious projects But since it's going to be a while before I really absorb live back into my bloodstream.......it's fine

[VitaminD]

Made a little demo song already.. kind of neat.

Two things so far I don't like with Live..

1) If a clip is created (track/clip? view), added to the arranger, then edited again (in track/clip? view) it does not appear to be updated automatically on the recorded arrangement view.

That's on purpose. There's a method to that madness.

Well then.. I find that method stinks.

2) There does not appear to be a way to break apart all the sections of the software in to separate windows. It is the reason I never used Fast Tracker II back in the stone ages.. I HATE having everything stuffed into one screen. super cluttered. UGH.

Not everything can be reaper and sonar x1/2

I find most aspects to be fine. One thing, the browser SEEEEEUUUUUUCCCCKS in 8 Apparently, great care has gone into this in 9

You are claiming I'm attempting to make Live! work as Reaper and Sonar.. but I never stated such.

The whole point of Windows (the operating system) was to have.. windows.. multiple, configurable screens all functioning at the same time.. Not this old school DOS style method of having everything squeezed into one screen because there was no method of generating multiple 2d panes.

That isn't a trait of Sonar or Reaper.. its a trait of the operating system as a whole on which it functions.. which, by the way, was copied (Windows) from Macintosh.. so they both behave in the same manner.

[hibidy]

You are claiming I'm attempting to make Live! work as Reaper and Sonar.. but I never stated such.

I never claimed any such thing!

I don't want session clips updated btw, I love them being separate entities. Now, about this "insert silence" thing..........

[VitaminD]

You are claiming I'm attempting to make Live! work as Reaper and Sonar.. but I never stated such.

I never claimed any such thing!

Ahem...

2) There does not appear to be a way to break apart all the sections of the software in to separate windows. It is the reason I never used Fast Tracker II back in the stone ages.. I HATE having everything stuffed into one screen. super cluttered. UGH.

Not everything can be reaper and sonar x1/2

..you were saying?

[hibidy]

You are claiming I'm attempting to make Live! work as Reaper and Sonar.. but I never stated such.

I never claimed any such thing!

Ahem...

2) There does not appear to be a way to break apart all the sections of the software in to separate windows. It is the reason I never used Fast Tracker II back in the stone ages.. I HATE having everything stuffed into one screen. super cluttered. UGH.

Not everything can be reaper and sonar x1/2

..you were saying?

W!

[UncleAge]

@VitaminD
One problem in finding examples of how to work in Live is that we all use it quite differently. I use it mainly for sound design. I work mainly in session view but it's not the vertical clip view that's important to me. It's that I prefer accessing the mixer area in a vertical manner. Also, I find the arrangement view to be lacking in some things that I find important. One of which is an easier take system. I play guitar and bass and I prefer a system like Traction, Studio One or Logic when it comes to handling takes. In addition I prefer a different workflow when it comes to editing.

With that in mind, I have no desire whatsoever for Live to change any of the above. Instead I focus on the areas that I like. I like the drum/instrument racks. I like the ease of grouping and constructing layered instruments/fx. I like its wealth of audio and midi-fx as well, even though I will switch them out from time to time in the final version of things. And even though Reaper is more flexible w/midi routing, Live is easier when setting up simple midi routing.

Cool thing is that I have read many posts by folks that swear by the arrangement view. Its cool that we both get what we want from the tool. However, I've seen quite a few videos from folks working in Live from that perspective and I get very little from their presentation. Its just not how I use the program. So folk that use it to DJ or run theatre productions are likely to have very different workflows from folks using it for sound design in movie soundtracks. And they will both be different from someone trying to record their band and what not.

What I have found useful are videos that highlight certain aspects of the program like Nick's tutorials where he will go in depth on Sampler or one of the other built-in instruments. So I guess to each their own. The one thing I think most long time users of the program will tell you though is that it is a much deeper program than the simple interface implies. I still remember the smile that went across my face the first time I realized (saw in a video) the ability to unlink the clip from the clip's automation and the possiblities that opens up.

At this point I cant imagine working things out in my computer without Live. I know I did so in the past, once upon a time. I just can't remember how that went

[Mister Natural]

^ strong post, Uncle

so many use LIVE in their own way; it's elegance as software is not only the intergration of pieces but also the indivuality of it's use as a tool to make music - everyone who's worked with it for a year or two does it differently from one another

agree that many users who are anxious for vers.9 haven't scratched the surface of the capabilities of vers.8 : for what it might be worth

peace

[andrelafosse]

So I'm an Ableton n00b, and I'm hoping someone can clarify this for me:

Apparently adding "proper" automation in the Session view has been a long-standing request of users, and is one the big things coming in Live 9. My question is: how would this be used differently than using the clip envelope editor? Is the idea that it's a faster, more elegant way to, for instance, get a long modulation curve over several iterations of the clip?

I'm not doubting that it has great merits, I'm just too new to the whole thing to really wrap my head around them. Wisdom and schooling gratefully accepted on this...

[elxsound]

So I'm an Ableton n00b, and I'm hoping someone can clarify this for me:

Apparently adding "proper" automation in the Session view has been a long-standing request of users, and is one the big things coming in Live 9. My question is: how would this be used differently than using the clip envelope editor? Is the idea that it's a faster, more elegant way to, for instance, get a long modulation curve over several iterations of the clip?

I'm not doubting that it has great merits, I'm just too new to the whole thing to really wrap my head around them. Wisdom and schooling gratefully accepted on this...

Well, with clip automation, you don't even need to open the clip editor. You can use any midi controller to add automation, and then if you need to, use clip editor to fine tune this.

Truthfully, it's only useful, if you prefer using a midi controller to make automation lines, but if you prefer manually inputting them, then maybe you won't find it useful.

I personally love the changes. Because the clips keep looping (if you set them to loop), then you can keep adjusting until you are content. If you stop recording after the loop has repeated beyond what automation you intended, then Ctrl+Z/Command+Z will remove it.

Again, IMO, it's a major improvement.

[masstronaut]

Clip automation is 'absolute' as well, right? Whereas envelopes are relative to device settings and known as 'modulation' in Live.

Also to answer the question in another way - the real big difference is you can record it in.

[sl1914]

and the new curves make it much easier to get the kind of automation that you want.

[JoeCat]

Yeah - not being able to record in clip automation is a big issue.

I think fundamentally there are two different ways of looking at parameter changes. Some are literally part of the arrangement (as in a 4-bar filter sweep before a drop, etc.), and some are part of a repeating clip or loop, like parameter tweaks to wobble a bass line.

There's no way to record those tweaks to a clip, so you have to record them in arrange view or draw them in, and without curves, it's a bear. And I think it surprises a lot of people who are using Live primarily in Session view, where there is no recourse short of working with the controller's midi or the instruments controller modulation capabilities - here's a DAW that encourages you "play it", then leaves out a fundamental recording function. At least track/lane automation works reasonably well (you can lock/unlock, so it's easy to copy/move clips with the lane automation attached), but you can't do that at all in Session view.

In Ableton's defense, they've explained why this is a difficult feature to implement, and the fact that clip automation is relative (expressed in a percentage) as opposed to lane automation (absolute) is part of the problem. I think woking in relative values is great for clips and hope they are able to retain that.

Clip automation + curves gives you basically a looping MSEG for any synth/effect. routed to any parameter. Throw in the ability to save/load some patterns and that IMHO will be worth the upgrade for a lot of people.

[andrelafosse]

Many thanks for the detailed responses and gentle n00b-schooling, guys.

[V0RT3X]

I remember starting out mostly with Propellerheads reason, so i was used to the classic tape recording style layout. Once i got into Ableton I remember being pretty put off by the whole clip based approach, and due to the minimalistic look I thought it was less powerful. Now that I forced myself to actually use it more I love it! It is actually all I use now, and I have now ditched Reason in favour of using Ableton live.

It is probably the fastest DAW i've used in terms of setting up and getting a song going, at least involving the usage of VSTs! It really is great for people who like to build their own midi based loops, but Live really shines in its clip launcher. Having the ability to make a bunch of midi clips and then play them in a group "live" is great if you need to whip together a jamming track of some kind. If you want to get your hands a bit more dirtier, you can also edit in automations per clip which is pretty amazing for building complex sounding tracks fast! With the announcement of live 9, now we will have the ability to record automations in our clips and then transfer them all into our tracks. I think this is a feature that should have been implemented a bit sooner, but it is nice they are paying attention to what the users want. I also think the fact that they have allowed spline curves in the automation tables is exciting! Basically this will allow for some incredible automations to happen all in Live without the need for something like LFO Tool or Cable guys Filter curve things. Cytomics the drop mixed in with this type of automation will make it a very very incredible tool for anyone who needs amazing sounding filter automation in any DAW!

For everything live, live is amazing! You can use it to trigger outboard gear for a live show with a bunch of external synthesizers just using something like a apc40 loaded with a bunch of midi clips. I think Deadmau5 does something like this along with some other big name artists. In this sense it really does live up to its name! it's just having the balls to play live..

But if you want to do DJ work you could just load in a bunch of songs, set the BPM per audio clip in the automation and just DJ away! I've thought if you did this and used a effect plugin like Artillery2 that you could really have a easy DJ system right there.

[hibidy]

Does anyone else have weird f....in problems with collision and tension (and I guess other built in synths) just going out of tune or weird knobs moving/filters moving w/o moving knobs or anything like that?