KVR Audio

Cupwise · Post by **Cupwise** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:16 pm

bob bobwood wrote:The wobble justs sucks the volume out of everything though, unless I take Trim to around 15dB any effect is harldy perceptable and above that FL9 starts to stutter and spit but is loud.

Cheers.

i wouldn't recommend boosting with trim a whole lot. if the input meter starts going into and past red you probably shouldn't go too much farther. maybe what you mean by it 'sucking the volume out' is that it's filtering the sound. that's what happens with radios, they filter low bass and high (here probably over 15kHz) treble. that's part of the effect though, part of the sound. you can use it on tracks with frequency information that won't get filtered so much also, such as something that doesn't have low bass anyway. or you can use it FOR the filtering, as an alternative to typical high/low pass filters (though the cutoffs are fixed here)..

but, really, the main idea behind that wobble effect, was that originally i wanted to include the effect with LFOs on the tone knob. i had them made up, but they had bugs i couldn't fix. so if you're going to use wobble, you really should try attaching an LFO (fl studio can do this, and so can probably most hosts) to tone.

bob bobwood · Post by **bob bobwood** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:37 pm

No worries mate, no red light.

Cupwise · Post by **Cupwise** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:47 pm

bob bobwood wrote:No, I mean if I switch this wobble effect on I can hardly hear anything until I turn trim to 15 and then it just sounds broken. I'm not after any specific effect myself, just reporting what I find while trying yours.

bob pm'd me that. i felt like responding to it here just so everyone could see. first i think maybe you're expecting too much from the effect or something? the wobble one isn't so much about distortion like the other two are. the other 2 were sampled to get distortion by being overdriven or having the station tuned slightly off of the signal. wobble was sampled at more like 'normal' radio listening levels. so yeah it's going to be a more subtle effect. if you want the distortion, use the other two. wobble is more about the tone knob, and the ability to use it to tilt the sound towards bass or treble end of the spectrum, like a simple eq. then it's also about the overall tone, which can be subtle, but you can use either a tube radio tone, or transistor. but mainly it's about the effect you can get if you automate the tone knob with an LFO, which can almost give you a 'wubwub' type of an effect...

so you can use it in different ways. as a subtle tone tool that kind of degrades the sound a little in a lo-fi but smooth/nice kind of way, or as a modulation effect using LFO, or as an alternative EQ tool. try turning tone all the way up and then the type knob to tube. it gives kind of a nice sizzly sound.

oh and yes, to be honest, the tone knob's effect can be subtle itself. it's more noticeable with type set to tube. i wanted it to be more extreme, but sometimes things come out differently than you expect and there isn't time to redo.

bob bobwood · Post by **bob bobwood** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:03 pm

pm - private message, not public, thanks for the respect.

I report what appears to me to be a bug during trial of the fx. You respond and also tell me if I need wobble how to do it or if I want distortion use the others. I don't need wobble or distortion, I am merely trying the entries in the DC challenge.

Yeah, maybe I expect too much, but I expected much more.

Cupwise · Post by **Cupwise** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:18 pm

woaaaah wooah woaah, dude come on man. i didn't mean it like that. i just meant that you were expecting distortion from it, because the other two give distortion and it doesn't. that's all i meant.
and i didn't think there was anything in the content of that message that in any way involved a betrayal of trust for my putting it in the forum. you had an issue that i thought i could explain and maybe other people wondered about also. it seemed better for me to explain it where people could see.

wow. i appreciate your interest in my stuff and i think you just took this the wrong way.

wobble is a more subtle effect than the other two, yes. and the biggest reason is because it doesn't have distortion like they do. but it's not supposed to, and i guess i could have made it more clear in the manual. wobble actually sounds more like a radio. the other two are like radios being abused.

Cupwise · Post by **Cupwise** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:34 am

I've released a new update, to 1.04
Fixes the issue of the Radio Wobble effect being too quiet. Does the same for Radio Detuned, and the levels for the various effects (you get when using the 'select' knob) have had their levels balanced better also. These fixes make the whole experience with these two plug-ins a lot better, I think.

Presets have been added for Detuned and Crush. If you haven't really messed around with these effects much, you should try these presets to get a good idea of what they can do. The thing about those 2 effects is that you really have to adjust the different controls to find different positions that give various strange or broken behaviors, and so if you don't really put the time into finding them, you won't. The presets show some of what can be found.

The full installers have been updated to 1.04, but if you already installed the set you should just grab the update zips. They are quicker to download and only have the files that need to be updated. You just over-write the old files and you're up to date. Make sure to grab the correct version just like you did for the original installer!
Update zips are found here.

Genetic_Junk · Post by **Genetic_Junk** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:22 pm

Using radiosmash on a singer-songwriter thing I recorded (badly) last night with my zoom h2. Sounds really cool. All parameter adjustments work fine, but the default settings sound pretty good for this recording.

Thank you for the set. I have Nebula 3, so I'll be looking at some of your commercial sets.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:55 am

I finally got around it to test that thing. And I had to delete it within 5 minutes.

Here's the reason why:
The plugin itself installed fine. So there is no critism.

The problems started with actually using that plugin. Recommended by the developer, I grabbed the 96/32 version since I'm working in 48/24 mostly. I'm used to the ACQUA engine by Acustica Audio, and expected a flawless solution in this case as well. I was unfortunately mistaken.

Each plugin coughed and spit at me like nobody's businesss - and even at very low settings. It even went so far that I had peak spikes beyond(!) +130dB. I'm happy that my speakers and my DAC have built in security measurements just for these cases. So I warn everyone that's trying these tools.

I tested in both Wavelab 7.2 and Cubase 6.0.7.

The behavior I encountered:
- the plugin starts, but switches to a different setting (including knob jumps) after like 10-15s (no matter if while playback or in idle mode)
- certain dials don't change the tone smoothly, but rather "jump" from one setting to another
- random spitting, up to a full on "killing" of the channel strip (happened in Cubase - turning off the plugins didn't help - digital meter was busted)
- random GUI glitches (yes, I do have most recent drivers, runtimes and whatever else installed)

The concept might be interesting, but it unfortunately fails in several sections IMO. Most important is the GUI. Here it's a hit and miss in terms of certain settings like tone (especially if it switches through like 3-4 modes), a proper labeling would have been better. I want to know where I'm at with such tools, not listen closely for every nuance.

Then there's the uncontrolled spikes (spitting) of the plugin. Even with turning down both input and output, it happened.

The GUI overall is not appealing and hard to read - which is a thing to debate of course (like: "the sound is important" - but NOT in this case). I understand what these things are supposed to do, but a horizontal retangle with all the settings an proper labels in it would have just been as suitable - even better to read. Else this thing looks like a very bad SE creations with an even worse picture taken of an old radio. If the GUI is not your strong point, there are plenty of artists around that might help you out.

Maybe the set is working in Nebula (pro, I only have the free versions). But due to the crazy behavior, I'm now scared off. If it would work flawlessly, doesn't matter in which environment, it might be usable for lofi sounds or foley work.

But I have to step away from this one.

There you have it - feedback and critism - but no points for the DC.
Sorry.

Cupwise · Post by **Cupwise** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:08 pm

Compyfox wrote: Each plugin coughed and spit at me like nobody's businesss - and even at very low settings. It even went so far that I had peak spikes beyond(!) +130dB. I'm happy that my speakers and my DAC have built in security measurements just for these cases. So I warn everyone that's trying these tools.

i'm guessing that's because you are using them at 48kHz, and that's not tested as much. the loud spikes were an issue and the only way i could fix them was to add more buffer, but since you are working at 48kHz the set first needs converted to 48kHz which apparently still causes the spike for some (it didn't for me). so at this point, i'll take down the recommendation to use 96kHz version when working with 48kHz, and just recommend not to use at 48kHz, until i get a 48kHz specific version up, which would fix the issue.

Compyfox wrote:
- certain dials don't change the tone smoothly, but rather "jump" from one setting to another

if by 'certain dials' you mean the 'select' dial in the detune effect, it's supposed to do that. each 'jump' is an entirely different sampled effect. that's why the knob is called 'select' instead of 'tone' or whatever else. you are selecting different effects to use.

Compyfox wrote: - random spitting, up to a full on "killing" of the channel strip (happened in Cubase - turning off the plugins didn't help - digital meter was busted)
- random GUI glitches (yes, I do have most recent drivers, runtimes and whatever else installed)

if the 'spitting' is on loading them, you already mentioned that. if you're saying it happens randomly during use, that's weird and i haven't seen that and nobody else has mentioned it. and the random gui glitches report could be a little more specific, i can't address it as it is.

Compyfox wrote:
The concept might be interesting, but it unfortunately fails in several sections IMO. Most important is the GUI. Here it's a hit and miss in terms of certain settings like tone (especially if it switches through like 3-4 modes), a proper labeling would have been better. I want to know where I'm at with such tools, not listen closely for every nuance.

nowhere does any control labelled 'tone' switch through 3-4 different modes. the only control that does that is 'select', and that's only in the detune effect which doesn't even have a tone control. tone controls are always a smooth transition from bassy to trebly. so i don't know where you're getting that. these controls are explained in the manual.

Compyfox wrote: Then there's the uncontrolled spikes (spitting) of the plugin. Even with turning down both input and output, it happened.

you have my apologies. i'm pretty sure it's because you're on 48kHz and that one just slipped past me. good thing you had safety measures in place.

Compyfox wrote: The GUI overall is not appealing and hard to read - which is a thing to debate of course (like: "the sound is important" - but NOT in this case). I understand what these things are supposed to do, but a horizontal retangle with all the settings an proper labels in it would have just been as suitable - even better to read. Else this thing looks like a very bad SE creations with an even worse picture taken of an old radio. If the GUI is not your strong point, there are plenty of artists around that might help you out.

fair enough

Compyfox wrote: Maybe the set is working in Nebula (pro, I only have the free versions). But due to the crazy behavior, I'm now scared off. If it would work flawlessly, doesn't matter in which environment, it might be usable for lofi sounds or foley work.

well i haven't released them for nebula yet, but yes they would work a lot better. they are made from custom 'templates' that are a bit more complex than typical nebula programs, which i believe is where the 'spike on load' bug came from. adding the larger buffer deals with that, but since you're on 48kHz, there is an extra step done on loading, where it has to convert the samples from 96 to 48, so that takes longer and defeats my buffer 'fix'. unfortunately there's nothing i can do about it on my end. i've tried to get giancarlo of Acustica to implement a simple mute for the output for a few seconds after loading, but he's pretty busy.

Compyfox wrote: But I have to step away from this one.

fair enough

Compyfox wrote: There you have it - feedback and critism - but no points for the DC.
Sorry.

don't be.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:41 pm

Just as further info:

The graphic glitches happened really randomly - I can't retrace them. I'm running on a NVidia 9500GT over here, most recent drivers, 1680x1050x2 screensize.

The "jumping" of the parameters does not only happen after I just loaded the plugin (with a 10s delay), it also happened during playback.

Same with the spikes. Running fine, suddenly boom. Again, I'm happy that my hardware has savety measures built in and I didn't use headphones.

Regarding the tone dial - this is the one that stood out to me the most.

Maybe for future versions:
A more streamlined GUI, with maybe a 2x5 system which can look like this:

Code: Select all

[ PICTURE OF ]   Input         ATT     PAR 1     PAR 2
[ MODULE     ]   Output        REL     PAR 3     PAR 4

This would work just as good, and you can label them simpler. Especially in terms of used modes (select knob), etc. Doesn't even need to be ultra-photorealisitc. Though I do like knobs that look like vintage gear.

Hope that feedback helped regardless.

Cupwise · Post by **Cupwise** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:05 pm

i might be able to do something about the gui bugs, and probably having a 48kHz specific version would help for people working at 48kHz.

i still don't understand what you are trying to say about the tone knob. there are 3 separate effects. 2 of them have tone knobs. which of the two are you talking about, and what exactly is it doing?

oh and there is one other thing i just noticed. you said you got the 32 bit version, but my site page was worded poorly i guess. the different bit versions aren't to do with your audio's bit depth, but with the bit depth of your host. so if you are using a 64bit host, you should be using the 64bit version. 32bit is for 32bit host. so your using 24bit audio has nothing to do with which you should get. it's possible that using the 32bit version in a 64bit host could lead to extra buggy behavior... maybe.

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:27 pm

I was talking about the one with the selection knob - wobble?

And I used the 32bit version, since I use both WL7 and C6 in 32bit mode, even though I'm on a 64bit host - but the majority of my plugins are x86. I edit 48/24 projects most of the time, and 96/32 while mastering.

So no trouble in terms of understanding.

The main issue I still have with NEBULA is the lack of automatic recognition of the sampling rate, and accessing the appropriate sampleset. High class presets good and fine, but if I still have to think "which version do I need now?", this is a bit unintuitive.

Then again, I don't use Nebula/ACQUA versions as much as I used to these days.

Cupwise · Post by **Cupwise** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:18 am

Compyfox wrote:I was talking about the one with the selection knob - wobble?

yeah the select knob is on detuned, and that one doesn't have a tone knob. select knob, like i said, switches between 21 totally different effects. i'll agree that it could be handled better. the best thing would be a readout indicator telling you which of the 21 effects you are using. which is possible. all of the knobs could have an indicator telling you the current value/position, but that one (select) would be the one that benefited the most, so i might do it at some point.

Compyfox wrote: The main issue I still have with NEBULA is the lack of automatic recognition of the sampling rate, and accessing the appropriate sampleset. High class presets good and fine, but if I still have to think "which version do I need now?", this is a bit unintuitive.

well, that's the nature of it. lots of people only work in one sample rate so it isn't a problem for them, but i know some do use multiple rates, and i can see where it could get to be a bit of a nuisance. after a while you get used to it. also, with nebula there are ways to organize your sets to only show certain ones on load, so you can organize them however you want. with acqua you just click on the vst with the proper sample rate in it's name. here it's a problem mainly because i don't have a set in 48kHz, and that's combining with some weird bug to cause issues for you. i already spent several hours before deadline on that bug, with little progress except discovering the workaround of adding more buffer/latency to prevent it, but i think i might have found a new 'lead' on it...
so hopefully i'll have some significant update figured out soon (i kind of have to figure it out since i want to do more with acqua..)

Cupwise · Post by **Cupwise** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:03 am

just a heads up. i just managed to track down the bug. i don't know how i missed it earlier (the day before the deadline i spent hours tearing these things apart to find it). i let giancarlo (maker of nebula, acqua) know and he said he could probably de-bug it. it's hard to say when that would be ready, but as soon as it is (if he can fix it), i'll have an update here. it would be a pretty big update, because it will allow me to bring the buffer/latency down a LOT, which i think will also fix most or all of the gui glitchyness, and probably most or all other buggy behaviors compy noticed (hopefully).

on the other hand, if he can't fix it for whatever reason, i can fix it myself by removing the 'trim' control from all 3 effects. i hate to do that but the tradeoff would be worth it. i'm going to wait a while and keep that as a backup option.

either way, these things will be a LOT more stable.

the gui will still be the same though

Crackbaby · Post by **Crackbaby** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:36 am

Glad to hear it!

radio junk support -BIG update- v1.05