KVR Audio

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:43 pm

The more competition the better....

I have an iPhone 4s and iPad 3 they are great, and I wouldn't be without them- that said, I'm a PC guy (I tried Mac's, wanted to like them…just didn't, and for work I need a PC as there is so much engineering software and specialist software that is only available on the PC)

If anyone makes something better than the iPAD I will switch, hell, I want too switch- I hate itunes, proprietary connects, stupid OS omissions and a bunch of other stuff, but put simply, it is the best hardware/software combination available and it will take any competitor a LONG time to build up the media and app content that makes the iPhone and iPad so viable and useful. If anyone can do it, its Microsoft (maybe if they buy sony!) as they can add the 'and it also runs PC software', Microsoft has the largest software user base in the world.

So- Come on Microsoft, make a fight of it!

audiojunkie · Post by **audiojunkie** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:14 pm

Keebo wrote:Just because you can run current laptop/desktop software on a touch screen doesn't mean you can do so easily or with precision. Might as well stick with a laptop if a mouse and keyboard is needed.

It will still be interesting to see who and what apps will be developed for it though.

I'm very unlikely to say bye to my iPad any time soon.

Agreed. Right now, iPad apps are designed specifically for touch-screen use. I can't imagine manipulating a real DAW (unoptimized for touch screens) with my finger. At the very least, I would imagine a very precise stylus would be needed.

However, that doesn't mean I wouldn't drop my iPad for a tablet that lets me run all of the available plugins and all-in-one capability in a full DAW.

I've been more productive with my iPad than I've ever been before, because the system is instant-on (I don't have to wait for it to boot), it has a long battery life, it is extremely portable, and the touch screen serves as a passable midi interface. Once there is a Windows device that does these things as well as the iPad, I'll jump right back to Windows. As it is, I still do windows stuff on my laptop, but it is an old system, and it doesn't have the features that led me to like the iPad.

--Sean

Crabshack · Post by **Crabshack** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:38 pm

Imo many App developer are still stuck in the pre-tablet aera.I don't get why there are still so many apps try too look like real hardware and even if it LOOKS nice it's a pain in the ass to edit them (hello iMS 20).Well,i know.you can make mo money with soemthing that looks like the counterpart of expensive hardware.
But form should always follow function.Worst case scenario are a lot of small knobs cramped together to a little piece of somethin.We need more FADERS!I know they take more space but there's no law or need to put everything on one page.

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:51 pm

The stylus should do better than the finger and fast beats on a DAW such MuLab or XT, FL, Orion etc. shouldn't be a problem while commuting and you want to crystallize some ideas. But the iPad is limited in these areas starting with the TOTAL lack of VST to begin with and integration of available synths with the limited number of DAWs Apps.

Yes, maybe, Surface, or even better as someone pointed out, the ThinkPad2 could do a better job indeed for the easy road musician without carry on a laptop keeping the easiness of the iPad concept but with infinite amount of choices from VST to VSTi DAWs and a world of amazing applications.

Again, for the serious work, of course, you'll need to do the thing on the PC, but for the rest, a more than welcome alternative is in order.
Finally.

Sans Nom · Post by **Sans Nom** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:14 pm

Don't know about the Surface... But this, yes I'm interested:

liquidsound · Post by **liquidsound** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:20 pm

Sans Nom wrote:Don't know about the Surface... But this, yes I'm interested:

That's the new smartphone from Lenovo and they will have a version for ladies

Cool though.

martygras · Post by **martygras** » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:40 pm

This thread seems more about people wanting apple products to fail, and less about making a better product for musicians.

There are different people with different needs. Whether it's good or bad, the majority rules and I must be part of the majority when it comes to wanting a simple computing device for reading, browsing and of course watching and listening to movies and music.

The "i" devices are products for the masses and you KVRists are not the masses.
You're a "relatively" small part of the population that wants to run DAW's with samplers and plugins. Some of you even like to write scripts and code and mess with device drivers... and that's OK, but don't expect companies to put huge effort into developing products specialized for you.

It will come, but you can't skip steps in the evolutionary process. The iPod touch, iPad and iPhone are steps in the developement of the touch technology. A lot of money has gone into the touch aspect of computing, and Apple is shelling out most of it these past few years.

I've been waiting for 40 years to have the tech that's available now and I'm taking advantage of it as fully as possible. There's so much going on and it seems many of you are only focusing one one small aspect of the technology.

I'm using "i" devices for music, and it's working and I'm totally happy, and there's much more on the way.

zendorf · Post by **zendorf** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:29 am

I have a previous generation Windows tablet , an Asus ep121 (i5 cpu), which I have recently installed Win8 on. I have installed various music and graphics apps onto it to see which ones fare well in a touch environment.

First thing that anyone would realise with a Windows tablet is that absolutely need a stylus(ideally Wacom enabled) to do any real productive work! I have a few Android tablets and have tried several Ipads, and am of the view that fingers are fine for simple tasks, but you really can't compare touch to the accuracy and efficiency of a stylus. You also really need a 2 button stylus so that you can right click without having to do the hold/press emulation.

If you are thinking about getting a Win8 tablet for real content creation (as opposed to content consumption) you NEED a stylus. The new Samsung ATIV models , as well as Sony and Asus models, plus of course the Surface Pro, when it finally arrives as have a stylus. I would avoid an Win RT device and get a clover trail/atom device if you need lower power consumption, since you can still use all your standard Windows software. Ideally get an i5/i7 unit, as the atom models are limited to 2GB of ram.

I have found that Reaper and Orion work particularly well on a small screen (12" in my case).Orion really feels suited to a touch environment, and with some tweaks to the workflow and GUI ,could be a massive hit with the new Win8 tablet market. I wouldn't want to install something like Studio One on a small screen with it's rigid GUI. Have also been meaning to try out Live and maschine to see how well they work.

My main synths Zebra and Diva don't work with a Wacom device currently (it is a known issue by U-he) and this is really the only thing currently holding me back. Although, nice thing about the U-he synths is that the gui is resizable, and I hope to see more of that happening in the future so that DAWs and plugins will work well in a touch or desktop environment. Of course the real beauty of the Win8 tablet workflow is that you can start a project on the run, and then import the same project into your workstation when you get home...can't beat that

olikana · Post by **olikana** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:57 am

still no real estimated date for the release of the "Pro" windows8 tablets with the full version of windows8.
there seems to be power consumption issues pushing back the release date....and seems they might not even make it before xmas.
the earliest release date i found is the Dell latitude 10 Pro (not the RT!) with estimated release for mid december....but i wouldn't be surprised to see the release date moved further on.

should give plenty of time for windows developers to release more touch friendly versions of their sequencers, synths and effects....cos currently there's not many that are usable on a 10" touch surface.
from now on that will be for me n.1 selling point for any windows software released.
with the current state of windows apps not only u need a stylus but also 100/10 vision to use them on a tablet.
i think Usine is the only tablet ready windows sequencer at the moment?

which others?

zendorf · Post by **zendorf** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:46 am

Not sure where you are getting your info from, but there several Pro(i5) based Win8 tablets currently available. Granted, they are getting snapped up quickly and can be hard to get stock of.

Off the top of my head, some are the Samsung 700t,Sony Duo 11, Asus Taichi, Dell XPS12, Acer Iconia. There are also the Atom/CloverTrail Models which still run the full Win8 OS such as the Samsung 500t, Dell Altitude, Lenovo Thinkpad.

Also there are plenty of owners of the previous generation of tablets (such as myself)that have updated to Win8 and it really gives the older hardware a new lease of life. I am not as tempted to rush out and buy a new tablet now, as the new OS has made the touch experience much better. New Wacom drivers have really helped the stylus feel very close to a Cintiq.

I am happily using Reaper, Orion, Mulab and EnergyXt without any hitch as well as non music apps such as Zbrush, Mypaint and Steam

There is certainly no shortage of apps, as long as you avoid Win RT!

olikana · Post by **olikana** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:36 pm

most of those models, here in UK at least, are not released. they are all on pre-order and when asking retailers they don't know when they will get some.
they've been anounced yes (and since some time) but no retailer i've tried actually has had them them in stock.

and no matter if u find the current daw interfaces good for a 10" touchscreen....the reality is that they are everything but ideal.
i've had reaper on an eepc 10" touchscreen for years....unless u wanna lose your eyesight i wouldn't reccomend it (energy xt for example is more clear).
but hopefully it will get an interface revamp to accomodate operation on small screens/tablets.

polaris20 · Post by **polaris20** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:53 pm

The stylus is a great thing for those wishing to do photography/art stuff on a tablet, but as a former Windows tablet user (the older stuff; XP/7) I have ZERO desire to use one for music stuff. Might as well use a regular laptop with a mouse. It's very tedious for DAWs, IMO.

zendorf · Post by **zendorf** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:54 am

olikana wrote:most of those models, here in UK at least, are not released. they are all on pre-order and when asking retailers they don't know when they will get some.
they've been anounced yes (and since some time) but no retailer i've tried actually has had them them in stock.

and no matter if u find the current daw interfaces good for a 10" touchscreen....the reality is that they are everything but ideal.
i've had reaper on an eepc 10" touchscreen for years....unless u wanna lose your eyesight i wouldn't reccomend it (energy xt for example is more clear).
but hopefully it will get an interface revamp to accomodate operation on small screens/tablets.

Yes they can be hard to find, which is crazy considering how close Christmas is, but I have seen several models available where I live (Sydney)....the Samsung 700t and the Sony Duo 11. Personally I am going to wait for the next generation ,as I am quite happy with the Asus for the moment. If I see an atom model going for close to $500 with a stylus I would be tempted though! Of course you are then limited to 2gb ram and a 32bit OS but it would still be fine for a lot of mobile uses.

I hear you on the screensize issue. My 12" asus is as small as I am willing to go, and I hope to see a 15" tablet that is not a hybrid type (like the TaiChi and Lenovo Twist). A thin 15" 1920x1080 tablet with stylus would work nicely with a DAW. My ultimate wish is that a manufacturer will start making matte touchscreens so that I can use it outside!

There are also the giant tablets like the giant Sony Tap 20" one that would be interesting to try with a DAW. certainly will be a lot of choices for the consumer over the next year

Gonga · Post by **Gonga** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:02 pm

Aural Chaos wrote:So the iPad is killing the "PC", but Microsoft is also killing it?

I think so, there are a lot of trends away from personal computing. My take is there will be an increasing dichotomy between professional and consumer hardware. For many years, we used one powerful PC for everything - Internet, e-mail, finances, documents, gaming, etc. The PC revolution led to most people owning a powerful computer that could do practically anything, and many young folks grew up exploring the possibilities. A lot of the innovative ideas have come from people who had a Commodore, Radio Shack, Apple, or IBM PC when they were kids and who learned to code with BASIC, etc. They designed their own house with Home Architect. They learned to use spreadsheets for their home finances, databases for work, and desktop publishing for school, college, work and at home too. Once the web took hold, the trend toward laptops, and appliances like netbooks, phones and tablets doing much of what computers did began. Most of what the average Joe needs to do - there's a web page for it now, accessible from their phone or tablet. And the kids spend most of their time now with the incredibly immersive games on their appliances and not many experimenting with programming or even PC building.

So there goes the revolution - the freedom of innovation that came along with all that power and flexibility will now be the domain of only a few who spend a lot more for the privilege. And most kids will not have the opportunity to experiment with all the coding, hacking, software and hardware possibilities that we, and the global economy, have all benefitted from.

I could be wrong, of course

If so, I'll be glad. I'd love to see a trend toward PC-building again, and maybe the expansion of open-source software will finally occur to include the majority of people on the planet. People could really be empowered by it. It could happen, but I think it'll be in developing countries, not the U.S. We'll be consumers of content with our appliances, and be left in the dust.

IncarnateX · Post by **IncarnateX** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:43 am

I simply don't get it. Surface pro has been out for some time now but the iPad has not been killed yet. This is a great mystery to me. Usually the oracles of KVR are SO accurate fortune tellers, so please enlighten me on the subject. Is it just a case of getting the exact date right + /- 200 years, you know, just like the apocalypse predicted by Jehovah's Witnesses or what's up? Surely it can't be the oracles of KVR who are wrong....right?

Surface 2013: good bye iPad?