Is Native Instruments FM8 the best for DX7 epiano sounds?

[Lotuzia]

You can make good, or interesting E Pianos in a lot of synths, but nothing will get you as close, detailed, complex as the FM7/FM8 duo when it comes to approach the character and richness of these DX patches, or program new ones.

I really like the FM8, but I think that you can get even closer to the DX-sound with Zebra 2.

+1

(have both)

Fine, I also have a Dx7II, a tx 802, and a TG77.

Fm7/8 have the same exact set of parameters than the hardware machines, and it can also import sysex files.

Saying that a synthesizer that doesnt have the same possibilities and a strictly identical set of parameters can do better I'll leave to you, because well its not really my problem, as I have the HW machines, with hundreds of custom programs on it, and the FM8, with around a thousand of custom programs for it, including many keys patches ( well I love keys patches ) wich gives me all I want, and even more, because the architecture has been extended, and you can have more operators configurations.

Like I said to get the original Dx feel, FM8 is king.

Ymmv.

LtZ

[himalaya]

I really love FM synthesis in all its many varieties. DX7 is a great machine, a historical landmark, but it's just an introduction to what frequency modulation can do.

What can you cite as great FM synths after DX-7? FS1R?

Yamaha SY77/99
Alesis Fusion (although, I don't have first hand experience with Fusion so I'm not qualified to say how good its FM engine is).
For simple yet quick and effective FM, Clavia Nord Lead 3.

[hakey]

Saying that a synthesizer that doesnt have the same possibilities and a strictly identical set of parameters can do better I'll leave to you

The OP specifically asked about replicating the well known DX7 epiano sound.

"E. Piano 1", the original DX epiano patch, uses algorithm 5 - three operators, one with self feedback, into three carriers. Replicating that algorithm is well within Zebra's capabilities (four FMO's and two oscillator modules will do it).

(Now, who said that Zebra is "very limited for FM"?)

[hakey]

Fm7/8 have the same exact set of parameters than the hardware machines, and it can also import sysex files.

Yet plenty of people complain that DX patches imported to FM7/8 sound different.

[kmonkey]

Fm7/8 have the same exact set of parameters than the hardware machines, and it can also import sysex files.

Yet plenty of people complain that DX patches imported to FM7/8 sound different.

Because they do sound different. I remeber i tried it once by myself and someone here posted various results and examples(it was old thread....damn i am getting old...)

[hakey]

DX7 patches can even be replicated additively.

[Arrested Developer]

Did you use the same amplifier for both?

Actually i did.

[quayquay17]

Did anyone suggest a tx? I know software is easy but you could likely find atx on craigslist for less than a softsynth, and much closer sound-wise .

[Arrested Developer]

Fine, I also have a Dx7II, a tx 802, and a TG77.

Fm7/8 have the same exact set of parameters than the hardware machines, and it can also import sysex files.

Saying that a synthesizer that doesnt have the same possibilities and a strictly identical set of parameters can do better I'll leave to you, because well its not really my problem, as I have the HW machines, with hundreds of custom programs on it, and the FM8, with around a thousand of custom programs for it, including many keys patches ( well I love keys patches ) wich gives me all I want, and even more, because the architecture has been extended, and you can have more operators configurations.

Like I said to get the original Dx feel, FM8 is king.

As written in another post, i also have the DX7 (and in addition, i've worked for several years with the DX 7-II and the tx802).
Anyhow, to be honest, i don't care much about importing old sounds;
the sounds i really like in the FM8 are sounds that couldn't be created on a DX7 (and the other HW-s).

And to get the "original DX feel", for me, Zebra is more intuitive and effective.
By saying that i have to add that getting the feel for me is not very much related to having the exact set of parameters, but rather to the question, how the sound actually sounds.
Often you get the "soul/charisma" of a specific sound on another synth even better, if you use a different kind of synthesis...

[Lotuzia]

Saying that a synthesizer that doesnt have the same possibilities and a strictly identical set of parameters can do better I'll leave to you

The OP specifically asked about replicating the well known DX7 epiano sound.

"E. Piano 1", the original DX epiano patch, uses algorithm 5 - three operators, one with self feedback, into three carriers. Replicating that algorithm is well within Zebra's capabilities (four FMO's and two oscillator modules will do it).

(Now, who said that Zebra is "very limited for FM"?)

"The" original DX Epiano patch ? Did you ever used a DX7 in your entire life ?

The Op refered to "tines".

Only in the factory libraries of the Yamaha series there are a lot of Tines, E Pianos, Rhodish patches. Do you ever ask yourself why there's a "1" in the name of the patch ?. Yes, because its not the only one. The Dx7 II includes some EP patches equivalent using 2 Dx7, even the low prices expanders TX7 included some, not counting all other incarnations of the DX series. These patches were heavily used in more records than you can imagine.

As for me I have a whole bank of Tines, Hard Tines, E Piano, Bell Tines, etc patches, and another one of my own.

" The Original E Piano patch". ...... Just ridiculous.

[Aroused by JarJar]

Did you use the same amplifier for both?

Actually i did.

I've never tried FM8. I found FM7 to sound very much like a DX-7, but "lite", and the last time I played a DX-7 I was struck by how it completely failed to trigger my synaesthesia, which is typical of '80s gear and productions. That's not categorically a bad thing- Peter Gabriel productions to me sound completely "filmed in B&W" but I still like listening to them, same for Climate of Hunter which is a great album.

[Lotuzia]

Did anyone suggest a tx? I know software is easy but you could likely find atx on craigslist for less than a softsynth, and much closer sound-wise .

Tx7 have a really bad signal/noise ratio. And by this I mean its really terrible/. Maybe its the reason why some pople think it sounds a bit more meaty than the DX7. They're pretty cheap though so it might be an option.

[Lotuzia]

Fine, I also have a Dx7II, a tx 802, and a TG77.

Fm7/8 have the same exact set of parameters than the hardware machines, and it can also import sysex files.

Saying that a synthesizer that doesnt have the same possibilities and a strictly identical set of parameters can do better I'll leave to you, because well its not really my problem, as I have the HW machines, with hundreds of custom programs on it, and the FM8, with around a thousand of custom programs for it, including many keys patches ( well I love keys patches ) wich gives me all I want, and even more, because the architecture has been extended, and you can have more operators configurations.

Like I said to get the original Dx feel, FM8 is king.

As written in another post, i also have the DX7 (and in addition, i've worked for several years with the DX 7-II and the tx802).
Anyhow, to be honest, i don't care much about importing old sounds;
the sounds i really like in the FM8 are sounds that couldn't be created on a DX7 (and the other HW-s).

And to get the "original DX feel", for me, Zebra is more intuitive and effective.
By saying that i have to add that getting the feel for me is not very much related to having the exact set of parameters, but rather to the question, how the sound actually sounds.

Often you get the "soul/charisma" of a specific sound on another synth even better, if you use a different kind of synthesis...

NO probs AD. Like I said you can do fine EP patches on a lot of synths.

I have a bunch of EP presets for my DX, and they all sound different, react in a different way under fingers. Well for me thats the magic of FM : Very expressive and responsive, subtle patches. But ...... sometimes you might need a completely unresponsive EP patch as well so .. ( though you can do that in FM too, but thats another story ! )

Well like I said ...... to each its own.

LtZ

[hakey]

"The" original DX Epiano patch?

What's the question?

Did you ever used a DX7 in your entire life ?

Yes (what's that got to do with anything?)

The Op refered to "tines".

He referred to "heavy tines". I guess he meant "Fulltines".

From WikiP:

The DX7 Rhodes is a Fender Rhodes emulation, which originated from the "E. Piano 1" patch on the Yamaha DX7 and TX-series rack mountable synthesizers. [...] The DX7 II (and DX7S) provided a distinctive, bright, overtone-rich evolution of the "E. Piano 1" sound as a preset. On the DX7 II this sound became known as "Fulltines".

"E Piano 1" was the progenitor of the ubiquitous DX EP sound.

[Aroused by JarJar]

I really like that heavy tines epiano sound the DX7 and FM7/FM8 have, and that's what I use for that sound, but has anything come out since that has surpassed those? Is the FM8 still the must-have?

Interested in synthesis based VSTi's only not the sample based.

You can make good, or interesting E Pianos in a lot of synths, but nothing will get you as close, detailed, complex as the FM7/FM8 duo when it comes to approach the character and richness of these DX patches, or program new ones.

Some examples of Keys from our Gloss Spells soundbank for the FM8

Gloss Spells FM8 Keys

Multiple other FM8 sound demos on our site, like this one.



LtZ

I respect your programming, good job, but honestly I think the synthesizer itself sounds poor- pale and bloated. There's no "kernel" to the sound. I've been cruising the net a bit this evening listening to DX-7 examples. I had forgotten how bland it sounds, but it does have some body to the sound.

What I'm listening for probably doesn't interest many people- after many years I can usually tell right off if a synthesizer is going to disappear in a mix with pretty much raw (very little processed) acoustic instruments.