New T-Racks Plugins/Updates - Let's Talk About The Sounds (No Issues Please)

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Since the other T-Racks thread is 95% questions, concerns, confusion, etc., I'd like to get a thread going to talk about how the plugins sound. So far, I've checked out the updated White 2A and Black76, here are my first impressions:

1. The overall sound of the compression hasn't changed in any noticeable way, which I like. I still think when it comes to "how" these compress, they sound great.

2. The +10 db of gain issue that got introduced a few versions ago is still there. I can't imagine why this wasn't fixed. I don't want to blast my ears with an additional +10 db of gain every time I add a compressor. Especially if monitoring a kick or snare drum somewhat loudly. This is on both the Black76 and White2A.

3. How do they compare to the prior versions? Well, I did a quick compare on an acoustic rhythm guitar track, in both instances I preferred the cleaner originals to the updated versions. The new mojo isn't quite as magical as I had initially hoped. Which leads to...

4. This is just my opinion, but it looks like a distortion was added into the signal path of the original models, rather than IK having done a full blown modding of the entire signal path. Example, driving the input gain just makes things louder. It doesn't effect the frequency response to make tracks bassier, or scoop the mids, or boost the highs or any of that weird stuff that seems to happen with some plugins that do extensive modelling of the input stages of a particular piece of hardware. Even the IK 670 emulation does all of this stuff exceptionally well (different person doing the coding?). I checked in the VST Plugin Analyzer and confirmed: the frequency response does not respond to input/output gain settings like the NI/Softube/Waves/UAD versions.

So the difference between these and the old versions is that they add some distortion, but they're still not as colored as other options. Sometimes that distortion might not even be desirable.

I have to try this on a more aggressive mix, as the distortion might sound great on drums or bass, but on that particular acoustic guitar track, the cleaner (older) versions worked better.

In the end, I still think UA has a big lead in the 1176 game but as of today, IK has the best LA-2A. I just think it's the older version.

I'm assuming CSR sounds the same. And I haven't tried the Brit channel strip yet or the quad plugins.

[BERFAB]

VERY, very, happy to finally get CSR back into my projects. In its absence, I bought Aether, Breeze, Eos, and a bunch of other reverbs. Nothing, and I mean nothing, was able to get close to the purity I hear with CSR.

And, to my ear, it sounds every bit as clear and clean as it always did (mostly using the 'hall' plug). Not sure if the presets are new as it's been awhile since I've used it. But I really like them. Top notch.

Haven't used the T-Racks stuff yet. The 67 and Opto are my most used from this collection, and I hope they didn't fudge with those too much.

Cheers
-B

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Good point. Having CSR back is nice, but since the sound hasn't changed, these plugins should have been a replacement for the existing 32-bit versions. Now, when I open an old project, I either have to keep the 32-bit version installed for whenever I may need to recall an old project, or I'll have to somehow find every project I used CSR on and replace it manually and resave.

When doing a simple port from 32 to 64-bit, the transition should be seamless for the user IMO. Disappointed they chose to handle it this way.

[kelvyn]

@funkybot

Thanks a lot for the in depth... very interesting what you describe. I've already updated and although it went very smoothly I'm a little nervous about using the new versions of the 76 & the LA after reading your post... How Is it possible to instantiate the old versions of Black & White?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

@funkybot

Thanks a lot for the in depth... very interesting what you describe. I've already updated and although it went very smoothly I'm a little nervous about using the new versions of the 76 & the LA after reading your post... How Is it possible to instantiate the old versions of Black & White?

Don't be nervous about using them, they're just a different flavor of the old version. In some cases the new versions might work better, in some cases, maybe the cleaner old versions will work better. And I'm by no means an authority, nor did I test this on a whole lot of program material.

You should still have both versions of the plugin installed. The TRacks CS Black76 is the new one, while TRacks Black76 is the old one. It's the "CS" in the name that denotes which is which.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Has anyone used the British Channel or the Quad plugins yet? I'm certainly curious about those.

[bill45]

Thank, Funkybot, I was going to start similar thread.Have you tried the newer plugins?How does the IK pultec stack up against the competition.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

#4 is definitely an opinion, so I can't say "an opinion is wrong" but... unfortunately I feel it is not a proper assumption at all. We hold our comparison to the behavior of the real hardware to which we have a tremendous attention to detail (as stated elsewhere to a maniacal level which is why this is out NOW because it can now be held to our standards of this additional behavior of the units when not compressing) which it does exceptionally well, and not to other plugins because we don't know how they do what they do but we certainly know how we do what we do. And this is again only in comparison to the real units and the non-compressing behavior of these models is on par with our standards and is part of the whole path and package just like we do with other models (like AmpliTube's chain is meant to use its cabinet emulations/IR because they are made to work within the chain of our highly-detailed modeling).

[rhythmtechnologies]

#4 is definitely an opinion, so I can't say "an opinion is wrong" but... unfortunately I feel it is not a proper assumption at all. We hold our comparison to the behavior of the real hardware to which we have a tremendous attention to detail (as stated elsewhere to a maniacal level which is why this is out NOW because it can now be held to our standards of this additional behavior of the units when not compressing) which it does exceptionally well, and not to other plugins because we don't know how they do what they do but we certainly know how we do what we do. And this is again only in comparison to the real units and the non-compressing behavior of these models is on par with our standards and is part of the whole path and package just like we do with other models (like AmpliTube's chain is meant to use its cabinet emulations/IR because they are made to work within the chain of our highly-detailed modeling).

i stated in the original announcement thread that i didnt feel the distortion behaviour was up to par with the latest UAD offerings and funkybot's evil twin just confirmed my thoughts. the hardware (which ive used a few different versions thru the years) as a distinct change of frequency response when driven hard. the black76 doesn't match this behaviour. it distorts but it feels like the distortion is added into the plugin after the fact (if you know what i mean), which would explain my original statement about it sounding a little too harsh on top.

dont get me wrong, still a very nice compressor and the distortion is definitly useable for certain things but your colleages claim that it's the most faithful recreation on the market is a long ways off.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

that would be a long ways off...in your opinion. This is an accurate model of the hardware we modeled and we stand by it. And we don't compare to other company's plugins we urger you to do the same and compare it to the real hardware. I know you've used them but we definitely had this unit and modeled it accurately.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Peter, are you saying that your hardware 1176's frequency response doesn't alter at all based on how the input/output gain is set? Same for your LA-2A? Because, the frequency response on the updated IK plugins don't change at all based on gain. At least I'm not hearing it, and the Plugin Analyzer isn't showing it either.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

White 2A is like the hardware, I explained in another thread that it would clip your DAW before really showing a lot of saturation from being pushed. The 1176 should show the proper harmonic distortion when pushed when not compressing. If you are not seeing what you think you should, Tech Support can assess and get devs to test their findings if necessary http://www.ikmultimedia.com/support

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

White 2A is like the hardware, I explained in another thread that it would clip your DAW before really showing a lot of saturation from being pushed. The 1176 should show the proper harmonic distortion when pushed when not compressing. If you are not seeing what you think you should, Tech Support can assess and get devs to test their findings if necessary http://www.ikmultimedia.com/support

The harmonic distortion is there. It's the actual frequency response. Example: I jack the input gain and there's a boost in the bass and some highs. The frequency response on these remains consistent, whereas with the IK 670 for example, changing the settings has all kinds of effects on the frequency response.

[Peter - IK Multimedia]

Yes, what the hardware unit provides is there essentially. If you are going to compare to other companies' models I can't go there and not just for the obvious reason of "friendly competition" but that we don't model ours against theirs. If there's something you feel isn't happening that you think should, I am serious that you should bring this up to our staff (and I'll forward it too) since that really is the best way to get the best perspective on what it is supposed to (or not supposed to) do.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Yes, what the hardware unit provides is there essentially. If you are going to compare to other companies' models I can't go there and not just for the obvious reason of "friendly competition" but that we don't model ours against theirs. If there's something you feel isn't happening that you think should, I am serious that you should bring this up to our staff (and I'll forward it too) since that really is the best way to get the best perspective on what it is supposed to (or not supposed to) do.

Perhaps I'll send an inquiry to support, that said...I don't want IK or anyone else thinking that I think these are suddenly bad compressors. They're a different flavor of two compressors I already like a lot and I still have the old versions for variety.