Tone2 Rayblaster: OUT NOW! (demo version available)

[Ingonator]

I just explained you what the problem is. There was an another thread where I showed you everything about this with pictures and audio examples, but AFAIK you didn't understand the point. Don't think it's worth to do this again.

I am sorry but don't remember it now. and no also from your explanation here i don't get the problem. Could you post a link for that thread?

UPDATE:
Found it, was back in April, don't think you could call this "just explained..."... I guess you talk about this:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=#4887757
Have to take a little time to read trough it again but it looks like i din't really agree to you at that time.

Reagarding Saurus envelopes:
Currently i got a collection of around 1300+ presets for Saurus with beyond 130 presets of myself. So far i did not observe any problem regarding the envelopes.

I see Markus finally implemented a good decay shape! Any chance to make the same thing in ElectraX? I really liked ElectraX, but Decay was gated to audibly. Looking forward for this improvements in other Tone2 products.

Back in that thread you talked about Saurus but now want to change envelopes in ElectraX?


Ingo

[pdxindy]

Rayblaster CPU use:

I used those two audio demos from me for testing under "real" conditions:
Ingo Weidner - Empire Of Rays - Rayblaster Demo 1
Ingo Weidner - Empire Of Rays - Remix 1

CPU use for the first audio demo with 6 instances of Rayblaster and one instance of Drumazon was 10-24% on a Core 2 Quad Q6600 (4 x 2.4 GHz) CPU.
The maximum on the "Remix" that uses FXpansion Geist for drums was 29%.

The maximum number of used voices for those demos including Unison voices should be around 19 voices (+ a few voices for the drum in Drumazon).

The CPU use of the presets, even polyphonic ones could be either quite low (6-10% on my Core 2 Quad Q6600 CPU) or a higher depending on features, parameter settings and Unison etc.
Anyway all presets sounds should be usable also with 6 notes or more and "high quality" setting.
Lead sounds (monophonic) in average are around 2-5% on my CPU with "high quality" setting and 1-2% less with "Low CPU" setting (from "setup" menu.
While there are a few monophonic presets that only need 1% there are some extreme lead presets with 4x unison and delay/Echo FX that need up to 10% in high quality mode (again on a 5 years old Core 2 Quad Q6600 CPU).
This also seem to depend on how complex the waveform and the resulting filter response is. A simple Sawtooth waveform usually needs only very few CPU.

Like with most other synths of curse also the Amp envelope release time plays an important rule for the CPU use.

Well, I was not trying to make high cpu use, but rather following what sounded interesting... and with 2x unison made 3 presets that overloaded the cpu with 2-3 notes @ 44.1... I have a 2.8ghz i7

One time I was playing with settings with 1 note and the cpu went to 100%... 2x unison... 44.1 and high quality...

You can definitely crush the cpu with this synth... I think setting formant to a low setting has a big effect in some cases... but it is when certain settings coincide that it really spikes

[pdxindy]

I also noticed on one modified arp preset with poly set 4 and no unison, that high c note was about 20% cpu and the low c was about 80%... this was due to keyscaling on the formant knob... so the formant knob can have a huge impact on cpu use...

[Ingonator]

I also noticed on one modified arp preset with poly set 4 and no unison, that high c note was about 20% cpu and the low c was about 80%... this was due to keyscaling on the formant knob... so the formant knob can have a huge impact on cpu use...

Which audio buffer setting does your soundcard have during your tests?

I suppose you use Logic on Mac OSX?

With very low latency settings there could be problems indeed.

I agree that under certain conditions CPU use could be high but in some casse it could go down to just around 2% but in average use it should not kill the CPU.
There have been performance improvements with the last versions of Rayblaster and i'm sure there will be more in further updates.

On the last page MaxSynths has posted a list of possible CPU use improvements that was created by Markus which are based on the current experiences with Rayblaster. Based on that and additional observations like e.g. yours there will be hopefully more improvements soon.

If you like you could create a few test presets that result in extreme CPU use and send me a link either here or as a PM. I'll try to test them myself and forward them to Markus and/or Bastiaan.
If you don't want to post a preset you could also try to post a reproduceable step-by-step procedure, maybe starting from the Init preset.
Would be nice if you and also others who want to do the same would add some informations about their OS, DAW/host software and soundcard buffer size.

In general more or less detailed bug reports are much more useful than just mentioning "the synth sucks" (this comment and the example are general and not meant regarding your posts!!)

Of course existing customers could post themselves in the Rayblaster forum:
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?board=30.0


Ingo

[Igro]

I just explained you what the problem is. There was an another thread where I showed you everything about this with pictures and audio examples, but AFAIK you didn't understand the point. Don't think it's worth to do this again.

I am sorry but don't remember it now. and no also from your explanation here i don't get the problem. Could you post a link for that thread?

UPDATE:
Found it, was back in April, don't think you could call this "just explained..."... I guess you talk about this:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=#4887757
Have to take a little time to read trough it again but it looks like i din't really agree to you at that time.

Reagarding Saurus envelopes:
Currently i got a collection of around 1300+ presets for Saurus with beyond 130 presets of myself. So far i did not observe any problem regarding the envelopes.

I see Markus finally implemented a good decay shape! Any chance to make the same thing in ElectraX? I really liked ElectraX, but Decay was gated to audibly. Looking forward for this improvements in other Tone2 products.

Back in that thread you talked about Saurus but now want to change envelopes in ElectraX?


Ingo

deleted

[Ingonator]

[
edited

A few comments:

1.) I removed my post to make the thread less "messy" and the text is still contained in your quotes!

2.) I really did forget about that thread as it was 8 months ago and i had to care about other things during this time...

3.) The thread was about Saurus and not ElectraX which means we did not discuss exactly that before...

4.) i did not just talk bout my presets. I mentioned much more than 1000 presets based on factory sounds, 3 commercial soundset and my own presets where i did not recognize a problem with the envelopes

5.) It would be nice if you would create a "real world" preset (not one with extreme/hypothetical settings...) to prove your point.
The audio demo in that old thread seems to be unavailable.


UPDATE:
Just did a new test with a Decay of 2 seconds in Saurus. Here is a screenshot:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53230726/Sauru ... t%2001.png

Same with 3 seconds:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53230726/Sauru ... t%2002.png

this is from ElectraX with Decay of 4 seconds and Moog LPF (Shape setting: 7):
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53230726/Elect ... t%2001.png

An example from Rayblaster (default waveform, Soft Saw Osc window, Harmonic 1, start phase 51, Decay 4 seconds):
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53230726/Raybl ... t%2001.png


Ingo

[Igro]

[
deleted

I am not the one starting a flame war here. That comment is just hilarious.

A few comments:

1.) I removed my post to make the thread less "messy" and the text is still contained in your quotes!

2.) I really did forget about that thread as it was 8 months ago and i had to care about other things during this time...

3.) The thread was about Saurus and not ElectraX which means we did not discuss exactly that before...

4.) i did not just talk bout my presets. I mentioned much more than 1000 presets based on factory sounds, 3 commercial soundset and my own presets where i did not recognize a problem with the envelopes

5.) It would be nice if you would create a "real world" preset (not one with extreme/hypothetical settings...) to prove your point.
The audio demo in that old thread seems to be unavailable.


UPDATE:
Just did a new test with a Decay of 2 seconds in Saurus. Here is a screenshot:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53230726/Sauru ... t%2001.png

Same with 3 seconds:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53230726/Sauru ... t%2002.png

this is from ElectraX with Decay of 4 seconds and Moog LPF (Shape setting: 7):
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53230726/Elect ... t%2001.png

An example from Rayblaster (default waveform, Soft Saw Osc window, Harmonic 1, start phase 51, Decay 4 seconds):
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53230726/Raybl ... t%2001.png


Ingo

Wow Ingo, good job! Because i didn't have time to make this analysis again, but you nailed it! Now you see how Rayblaster improved here! I really would like to see this improvement in Electrax!

And again, big thumbs up for these pictures! (i see my old pictures i still on my drive though)

So, Saurus is gated at -46db
Rayblaster at ....I can't even see it! Probably at -80-90db! This IS an improvement!

Added: I deleted my post to not sound harsh.

[Ingonator]

Some official information about upcoming soundsets (i alraedy mentioned a few details here):

http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=1350.0


Ingo

More info about the first official soundset called "Futuron".
As already mentioned at the link above it will include 160 presets.

It will include 26 additional presets and 50 new waveforms (49 based on DNR Wave Designer...) from me.

Release seems to be planned before the end of this year, hopefully till christmas.


Ingo

[Ingonator]

[
Added: I deleted my post to not sound harsh.

Thanks for that. Deleted it from my quote too.


Ingo

[MaxSynths]

Ok this is just for fun

Radio GaGa

I wonder if the Tone2 synths really have this "particular sound" and if the golden ears can really recognize which synths have been used here

[ariston]

I wonder if the Tone2 synths really have this "particular sound" and if the golden ears can really recognize which synths have been used here

You're not getting the point, I'm afraid. I might have lead ears for all I know - and for all I care. My point is, every time I load up a Tone2 synth and play it, I dislike what I hear. No matter whether it's a faux-Moog bass line or a bright bell sound - they all have this "sheen" (for lack of a better word) to them. Maybe it's mainly due to the effects? Cause I feel the same way about Warmverb - never got on with the sound. I'm a fan of their filters, though.

I already tried to describe it in an earlier post. And, rest easy: you don't have to wonder about it at all. If you can't hear it and are pleased with the sound, then why bother? This isn't scientific. This is sound and music. And the fact that others are making the same observation is... interesting, because that means at the very least that there is some kind of inter-subjectivity here, which is the closest we'll get to objectivity.

I think what I hear as "that" Tone2 sound lends itself extremely well to genres which I don't dabble in at all, such as EDM and Trance.

[Ingonator]

I already tried to describe it in an earlier post. And, rest easy: you don't have to wonder about it at all. If you can't hear it and are pleased with the sound, then why bother? This isn't scientific. This is sound and music. And the fact that others are making the same observation is... interesting, because that means at the very least that there is some kind of inter-subjectivity here, which is the closest we'll get to objectivity.

I think what I hear as "that" Tone2 sound lends itself extremely well to genres which I don't dabble in at all, such as EDM and Trance.

The fact that several people at KVR are posting the same does not mean it's the ultimate truth.
For all Tone2 synths there are also lot of non-EDM and non-Trance presets.

So the question is do all Tone2 synths sound the same or do the presets sound the same?
If like me you got Rayblaster and all existing soundsets for e.g. ElectraX and Saurus and also made your own sounds for those you will maybe get a different opinion. Anyway people have their own opinion which i have to except. I could just express my own opinion here.


Ingo

[robindrieghe]

just starting to demo,the gui is huge...
glitch galore.impossible to run on my (older)internet pc.

[PietW.]

If you need new Waveforms take a look at Audio-Term. For Example you can create a Wavetable from a Voicesample. From thes Wavetable (wav) you can extract a lot of Single Cycle Waves you can also save with a low Pitch and diffrent lenght.

The Original Post from the Programmer.

http://home.arcor.de/blacktomcat666/Audio-Term.zip

Not yet on the update channel, because it's a nearly complete rework and testing is not finished. So make a new folder to put the content of the zip file in.

When you think it's working well, you can replace the 'Audio-Term v1.4x.exe' with the new file. Or you wait until testing is finished and get the new version by the update function. The application will build a new data structure and reassign the data into the new folders. This change can't be made undone, so be careful (or make a complete backup of your 'Audio-Term' folder).

Some new Features:

- new file structure:

1. Samples (WAV, 4097 samples/channel - 1 minute, stereo or mono, 16 or 32 bit)
2. Single Cycles (WAV, 32 - 4096 samples/channel, stereo or mono, 16 or 32 bit, loop data with length of file must be present)
3. K-TERM wavetables (WAV)
4. Komplexer WT files (WT)
5. Blofeld Wavetable Creator files (BWC)

- recycle bin for unrecognized file types and error info

- changed GUI

- harmonics in K-TERM now are logarithmic, which results in far better sound quality and interpolation results

- single cycle resynthesis and waveform drawing with resynthesis

- wavetable assembling now possible from single cycles and all sorts of wavetables

- also the formant filter curve can be loaded from all of these files

- much more flexible filter pages

- new formant shifting page

- new interpolation page with 2 algorithms and free anchor settings

- new pages for saving files

- wave energy computing for Terratec Komplexer WT files, so Komplexer now makes a nearly perfect resynthesis

- bug fixes and optimizations

The next step would be a manual and some demo files - just to show that it's more than a toy.

[tibah]

I have to agree with a particular sound to Tone2 products. To me, it's a matter of taste and preference, a different flavor that you like or not. Rayblaster offers several options for psycho-acoustic boost and also an option to disable it. I own FireBird and the HCM synthesis is great to me. I like how Tone2 is trying to come up with some new concepts. I like Saurus most of them all though.

Here is another example of that "sound" - a friend of me used to produce for years and stopped because of family expansion. This year he started to produced again. I was so into Saurus that I made some demos and shared it with some friends. Mostly random noodling for 15 minutes, tweaking different parameters to show what the synth does. His statement on Saurus: "Sounds like Vanguard". I was literally shocked. He was out for a very long time. He doesn't know that the same developer that made Vanguard is now running Tone2, but still he could "spot" that "sound". I know Vanguard is a totally different synth and I really like what Saurus does and the different paths you can get on with it, but this was kinda shocking / amazing.

I uninstalled Rayblaster yesterday. It's a good synth and I was looking for something unusual for my productions. I could get it to make some lovely sounds, but with so many options currently, I decided on a different synth.