KVR Audio

LeVzi · Post by **LeVzi** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:40 am

Which can be the case seeing as ElectraX is like 4 synths in 1.

zvenx · Post by **zvenx** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:52 am

MaxSynths wrote:Just like I wrote on the Tone2 forum I was 99.9% that the second one was Diva because it sounds better, and the first one gave the impression to be an attempt to emulate it.

Now this is very interesting.

Just like I said in the other thread the second clip has "something more". Glad to know is Rayblaster

more or less my conclusions too...
very interesting.
rsp

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:20 pm

A few pages ago I kindly asked Ingo to leave our stuff out of this thread for whatever comparisons he needs to make. The most interesting thing about this example is that he couldn't use anything else. He HAD to do it with Diva. It HAD to be, right?

What shall I make out of this? Send Markus some more cease and desist letters? - No, I don't think so. This isn't between Tone2 and me. I actually think that RayBlaster is pretty cool, even though the advertisement gives me that palmface experience.

Guys, if you really think this example shows anything good about RayBlaster then you're mistaken. It's by far the easiest to sample sound of Diva because - guess what - there is no cutoff modulation. It's a coward example. Not even the worst 12-bit sampler on earth would fail this test. It's a joke. RayBlaster is much, much better than that in other areas - it's a superset of the Fractal Resonance we have in Bazille for example - genius idea, well done Markus! But it can't even remotely touch Diva's filters when modulated.

So again, I'd appreciate to have our stuff left out of these stupid comparisons. We're not doing any either.

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:40 pm

I can't help but feel that this whole "tone2 vs. u-he" shambles is primarily created and sustained by those who are complaining about the "u-he fanboys" (I'm guessing girls get off scot free on that one

). It's like, there's a few characters that just can't resist it. It's like a scab they have to scratch, which then bleeds all over the internet. You can see it in their thinking, in the words and actions they choose.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" has never been more true, because this whole thing combined with the pseudoscience and laughable advertising copy their ad guy comes up with really sells the great synths that tone2 make short.

ElectraX is an absolute monster and I've been really digging deep into it recently, it kinda makes me sad that many people will never experience it because they are put off or don't want to support the drama.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:09 pm

Urs wrote: Guys, if you really think this example shows anything good about RayBlaster then you're mistaken. It's by far the easiest to sample sound of Diva because - guess what - there is no cutoff modulation. It's a coward example. Not even the worst 12-bit sampler on earth would fail this test. It's a joke. RayBlaster is much, much better than that in other areas - it's a superset of the Fractal Resonance we have in Bazille for example - genius idea, well done Markus! But it can't even remotely touch Diva's filters when modulated.

So again, I'd appreciate to have our stuff left out of these stupid comparisons. We're not doing any either.

Hi Urs,

that preset was one of my favorites that i created for Diva and i did not expect that based on a simple single cycle waveform i could get such a nice result. It's not always the complex sounds that are beautiful. This was the first time i did a 1:1 comparison since i used Rayblaster and using Diva for the first example maybe was not really clever. The motivation behind this was an interest in the result and not starting another flame war.

BTW i have created far more new waveforms with e.g. DNR Wave Designer than waveforms of analog synths. Around 95% of my waveforms included in the next soundset will be based on Wave Designer.
The really interesting results could be combining an analog sound with a digital one like i have already tried in a few examples.

*edited*

Ingo

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:18 pm

Look, I don't think it's a bad example for us. Not at all. It just IMHO doesn't prove what MaxSynth was so gloatingly glad about.

I think Sendy put it best. If you don't want some people to come across like drooling puppies who scored a little snacky from the grown up's plate, it's best to avoid our stuff. Or any stuff. Comparisons suck, they show nothing. Never did, never will.

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:23 pm

Ingonator wrote: I could not really hear that "throbbing" sound. Anyway the low end is quite big in the low notes played at the beginning which are no problems with my headphones.
Did you try to download the file and play it then? Maybe it's a browser or connection problem.

Yes, I downloaded the files and played them in my DAW through my large floor standing speakers which have a very good low end.

Edited to add that the throbbing was most likely sympathetic vibrations in my room and not in the sound itself.

However, digital artifacts in the low end were apparent in that otherwise wonderful CS80 patch by MaxSynths. These artifacts had a different characteristic than throbbing.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:27 pm

*edited*

Kriminal · Post by **Kriminal** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:19 pm

Ingonator wrote:The point is that Rayblaster does not need a full sample, a simple single cycle wave is enough. Using the same waveform in usual samplers would be pointless.

Worth a try. Put up some samples and we can drop them in a sampler of our choice and see if we can match your RB sound....

MaxSynths · Post by **MaxSynths** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:23 pm

Urs wrote:Look, I don't think it's a bad example for us. Not at all. It just IMHO doesn't prove what MaxSynth was so gloatingly glad about.

Welcome back Urs. You're not already working on the patches for Batman 6?

BTW: I posted in the Tone2 thread saying that the one which sounds better is Diva, and this was just my sincere opinion. I think the second Jupiter emulation sounds really good and that's all.

In any case this is not a comparison with Diva or whatever. I also asked to Ingo to post a comparison with some filter sweeps, to hear how the two compare. I think Ingo simply wanted to try to program one of his favourite patches on another synth, only to evaluate the results.

Now, is not nobody's fault if the same patch sounds better in Rayblaster...

By the way there is no reason to be alarmed, I don't know why you think this should be a bad example for you. The two products are totally different.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:33 pm

MaxSynths wrote:Welcome back Urs. You're not already working on the patches for Batman 6?

Howie is indeed just back from LA... but some other super hero flick, the Dark Knight trilogy is finished afaik

By the way there is no reason to be alarmed, I don't know why you think this should be a bad example for you. The two products are totally different.

Of course, they are. Guys at u-he headquarters went "Oh, we have to sincerely admit, this is a really great idea, pity we hadn't had that ourselves" when we checked RayBlaster out.

Hence it would be very, very sad if posting whatever comparisons would stirr up ye olde feud.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:35 pm

Kriminal wrote:
Ingonator wrote:The point is that Rayblaster does not need a full sample, a simple single cycle wave is enough. Using the same waveform in usual samplers would be pointless.

Worth a try. Put up some samples and we can drop them in a sampler of our choice and see if we can match your RB sound....

The answer is simple. In another synth/sampler without IMS you will need another filter to shape the sound butit wil not correspond to the filter of the original synth.
This is even worse for the resonant waveforms. In Rayblaster you could create a resonance sweep without an additional filter but in a sampler when no Resonance is added from a filter there you will most likely either cut off the resonance or get a totally different result as the waveform is not interpreted in a corrcet way. I hav tried that in PPG Wave 3.V. In that case you just cut off parts of the resonant waveform which still sounds like resonance but totally different with lower Cutoff frequency. Anyway in most cases except maximum cutoff it will not sound like in the original synth.

Simple explanation: in a usual sampler the waveform will be static, in Rayblaster not.

Ingo

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:38 pm

*edited*

MaxSynths · Post by **MaxSynths** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:47 pm

Urs wrote:Guys at u-he headquarters went "Oh, we have to sincerely admit, this is a really great idea, pity we hadn't had that ourselves" when we checked RayBlaster out.

The Fantastic Four? All of them?

Hence it would be very, very sad if posting whatever comparisons would stirr up ye olde feud.

I think it's inevitable to try to emulate some classic synths using Rayblaster.
Thanks God Rayblaster can do this and a lot of other funny things, so the attention will be not focused only on classic synths emulation (to be honest until now there have been few attempts).

Tone2 Rayblaster: OUT NOW! (demo version available)