Tone2 Rayblaster: OUT NOW! (demo version available)

[hakey]

That test took place because Ingo, as a Jupiter owner, first created a Jupiter patch on Diva and now on Rayblaster. In short: that test took place because the Jupiter is "at the top of the heap" and Ingo is simpling trying to emulate that kind of sound with different virtual synths.

Emulating a synth by emulating an emulation of a synth?

And "top of the heap" isn't where I'd place the original JP8 preset - an unremarkable sound any number of soft synths could reproduce.

[MaxSynths]

That test took place because Ingo, as a Jupiter owner, first created a Jupiter patch on Diva and now on Rayblaster. In short: that test took place because the Jupiter is "at the top of the heap" and Ingo is simpling trying to emulate that kind of sound with different virtual synths.

Emulating a synth by emulating an emulation of a synth?

I think the attempt was to emulate a Diva patch of which he was very happy He didn't tried to emulate Diva, he simply recreated that patch (the original one was by him as well)

And "top of the heap" isn't where I'd place the original JP8 preset - an unremarkable sound any number of soft synths could reproduce.

And this is what happened; has been reproduced on another soft synth.
(And it sounds better )

[Ingonator]

That test took place because Ingo, as a Jupiter owner, f

As a former Jupiter owner who regrets selling it back in 2004...


Ingo

[Ingonator]

*edited*

[Ingonator]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a filter sweep yield a more accurate (though still limited) impulse response?

Currently you need two different waveforms for a non-resonant and a rsonant filter response and both in one will not work.
This would mean that from a single waveform you would have extract the waveshape, the non-resonant behavior and the resonant behavior which is just too much.

And what would a filter sweep really change? The time scale would be longer due to a longer sample. Anyway a single cycle waveform got a time scale too which is just quite short (around 30-90 milliseconds).

A sample of a resonant sweep would also involve the envelope which would be another component that has to be extracted. Besides that a long sample is nothing else than a long row of single cycle waveforms with different shape, different amplitude but the basic filter character stays the same all the time.

As already mentioned the range of the imported filter response is limited so you'll maybe need around 3 waveforms to emulate the whole frequency spectrum correctly. You could mix small amounts of Resonance by mixing a second waveform (each oscillator got this) with resonant behavior. BTW the waveform display in Rayblaster is not static so it will show the new resulting waveform and will also show a change of the waveform while doing modulations of e.g. the start phase in a bigger waveform.

Finally i have posted that PDF with Signal Analyzer sceenshots of a Resonant Saurus waveform while turning the Formant knob in Rayblaster:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53230726/Raybl ... es%201.pdf

A screenshot from Saurus for comparison:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53230726/Sauru ... er%201.png

While those do not look totally identical they are close enough for my taste.

This would simply not work that way if everything about IMS would be just nonsense.
I have posted that a few times already but so far there was no comment about it...


Instead of showing us quotes from the Tone2 website and the manual you should maybe finally start checking this yourseld using the demo and the tons of waveforms that are either contained in tzhe factory content or which i have provided for free at the Tone2 forum (including lots of instructions):
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=1336.0



Ingo

[Kriminal]

Wouldnt it be more authentic to use an actual jupiter?

[Sampleconstruct]

But why waste so much time emulating/rebuilding/mimicking other synths of your favourite competitors in RB by importing single cycle wavs and whatever else - is that the only reason RB was released? I don't think so....

[Kriminal]

But why waste so much time emulating/rebuilding/mimicking other synths of your favourite competitors in RB by importing single cycle wavs and whatever else - is that the only reason RB was released? I don't think so....

Its the part some ppl seem to be pushing very hard. Theres been little mention of its other features...

[Ingonator]

But why waste so much time emulating/rebuilding/mimicking other synths of your favourite competitors in RB by importing single cycle wavs and whatever else - is that the only reason RB was released? I don't think so....

No, actually it was not planned to do analog sounds at all but it turned out that the results you could get could be really good.
How should i mimic the behavior of a filter without using a single cycle from a competitors product?
I also made waveforms of all Saurus filter which are included in the factory content, in some of my presets and a full set at my thread on the Tone2 forum.
MaxSynths has also published filter responses of ElectraX

Using different analog filters was an obvious task to be done with Rayblaster.
And as i already mentioned several times you get the most interesting results when loading complex, digital, custom etc. waveforms which will result in totaly crazy filter responses. So far i have made at least the tsame amount or even more presets based on custom waveforms than on analog ones. In some presets i also tried to combine those (each in one oscillator).

So you blame us for not trying to test everything that is possible with the synth?

But why waste so much time emulating/rebuilding/mimicking other synths of your favourite competitors in RB by importing single cycle wavs and whatever else - is that the only reason RB was released? I don't think so....

Its the part some ppl seem to be pushing very hard. Theres been little mention of its other features...

I have mentioned more or all other features during this thread and also some advanced stuff i found myself but the discussion always comes back to the same thing and that i have to tell the same stuff over and over again. BTW i already explained the procedure how to create the waveforms two times to you after you asked about it for the first time. Yesterday was the third time AFAIK.


Ingo

[Shabdahbriah]

But why waste so much time emulating/rebuilding/mimicking other synths of your favourite competitors in RB by importing single cycle wavs and whatever else - is that the only reason RB was released? I don't think so....

Its the part some ppl seem to be pushing very hard. Theres been little mention of its other features...

It has "other features"?!!!

[Kriminal]

How should i mimic the behavior of a filter without using a single cycle from a competitors product?

use 'other' synths? you know, hardware ones....might be more accurate, especially as you have such a big collection and understanding of them. (or are you still using mp3's from synthmania?)

BTW i already explained the procedure how to create the waveforms two times to you after you asked about it for the first time. Yesterday was the third time AFAIK.

i think you are missing the point of my 'question'

im saying this is mumbo jumob, total tosh, utter fantasy. there is no way in the world you can do what is claimed by using a single cycle sample (sorry, its called a filter impulse isnt it...)

[Ingonator]

As i noticed that i have to repeat many of my statements i decided to post a small collection with places for informations and resources about Tone2 Rayblaster.

1.) The official Rayblaster website

http://www.tone2.com/html/rayblaster_sy ... st_au.html

Here you could download the product demo and listen to audio demos.
Additionally there are a few informations about the synth.


2.) The feature overview video and the second part of thewebsite

http://www.tone2.com/html/impulse_model ... is__i.html

This website includes the feature overview video which explains the basic features of Rayblaster.
Besides that the website contains some additional information about Rayblaster.

3.) The user manual:

IMO this is the most important resource for informations on Rayblaster. It could be found in the "Help" menu at the GUI of the plugin, as a PDF in the installation directory ("Rayblaster.pdf") or at this link which i just created:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/53230726/RayBlaster.pdf


4.) The Rayblaster forum at theofficial public Tone2 forum

http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?board=30.0

This forum could be read by anyone but posting is only allowed for registered customers. Anyway some of the download links posted should be usable as long as they are not protected.
This includes lots of informations about Rayblaster, also regarding updates etc.


5.) My own thread at the e Rayblaster forum

http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=1336.0

I have created an own thread at the Rayblaster forum which includes downloads for free waveforms and explanations/tips on how to use those waveforms and the synth. Sometimes i copy my responses from KVR to there for having them on one place.


6.) Rayblaster demo version and factory presets

Another good way to learn about the synth is of course to use the product demo and especially look at the factory presets to see what is possible and how this could work.
In this respect the Tutorial presets in the "Tutorial" sub folder are quite interesting and useful.

In the manual usually for each important feature a corresponding tutorial preset is mentioned for checking that feature.


7.) Additional soundsets

Additional soundsets for Rayblaster are on the way, the first one will be released soon:
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=1350.0


8.) This KVR thread

Last but not least tons of informations were provided during this thread which i had already done before the official release was even done.
Those informations include basic features and also sme advanced informations which i found out myself.
There was also information about testes on CPU use, RAM use etc.



That's it for the moment


Have fun,
Ingo

[Ingonator]

How should i mimic the behavior of a filter without using a single cycle from a competitors product?

use 'other' synths? you know, hardware ones....might be more accurate, especially as you have such a big collection and understanding of them. (or are you still using mp3's from synthmania?)

The first synth i used was my Slim Phatty. some of those waveforms are included in the factory content, used in some presets and i just published the whole set of waveforms here and at the Rayblaster forum:

http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=1336.0

I will do comparisons with it for sure but at the moment i am more interested in doing new presets using my huge collection of waveforms, most created with DNR Wave Designer BTW.
In the additional waveforms i have provided for the first soundset there is one one (!!) with a filter response.

I have also started creating "virtual filter responses" with Wave Designer. A link and screenshots could be found here:
http://www.tone2.org/forum/index.php?topic=1336.0



Ingo

[Kriminal]

I have also started creating "virtual filter responses" with Wave Designer.

what filter does the wave designer use?

So please stop telling me that i only publish Bulls**t here.

thats not what i said. Im saying the claims are suspect.

[pdxindy]

No, actually it was not planned to do analog sounds at all but it turned out that the results you could get could be really good.
Ingo

That is not established yet... Certainly nothing I heard in the demo approaches the sound of todays top quality analog emulations... and Rayblaster doesn't have a filter... I don't think it is capable of a simple full spectrum filter sweep. It also has no resonance control. Yes you can load a resonant waveform and a non resonant waveform and blend between the two but that is NOTHING like an actual resonance control on a filter. Rayblaster cannot self oscillate. There is nothing equivalent to drive or filter FM...

As soon as you modulate or turn the cutoff and resonance knobs on an analog or VA synth, you are in territory that Rayblaster cannot go.

Saying Rayblaster is good for analog emulation is like saying the DX7 is good for analog.