KVR Audio

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:36 am

sqigls wrote:Hi Andy, will the discount expire for owners of the Glue? I am planning to buy the Drop next week. Cheers, AWESOME filter man, amazing sound.

The discount will not expire any time soon, I'm giving it a go as a permanent fixture. If I do decide to stop doing it I'll make sure to give people at least a months notice.

For those unaware of the deal it is buy one get 30% off the second, which applies if you are an existing customer or buy two at once.

j0hnny · Post by **j0hnny** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:58 pm

If I want to create automated filter sweeps using Ableton live as a host, will the filter cutoff knob resolution be downgraded to 127 steps and therefore be less smooth than moving the cutoff directly in the GUI with a mouse?

Thanks

camsr · Post by **camsr** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:04 pm

j0hnny wrote:If I want to create automated filter sweeps using Ableton live as a host, will the filter cutoff knob resolution be downgraded to 127 steps and therefore be less smooth than moving the cutoff directly in the GUI with a mouse?

Thanks

MIDI CC is limited to 128 steps, but VST automation is done in the same resolution as the plugin.

But, using a plugin's internal automation functions (like envelopes, LFOs) will almost always allow for per-sample value updating, where the host's VST automation can be limited by the MIDI PPQ value (this is FL studio, not sure about other hosts).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulses_Per_Quarter

When rendering, some hosts might up the automation rate to per-sample.

j0hnny · Post by **j0hnny** » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:41 pm

camsr wrote:
j0hnny wrote:If I want to create automated filter sweeps using Ableton live as a host, will the filter cutoff knob resolution be downgraded to 127 steps and therefore be less smooth than moving the cutoff directly in the GUI with a mouse?

Thanks
MIDI CC is limited to 128 steps, but VST automation is done in the same resolution as the plugin.

But, using a plugin's internal automation functions (like envelopes, LFOs) will almost always allow for per-sample value updating, where the host's VST automation can be limited by the MIDI PPQ value (this is FL studio, not sure about other hosts).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulses_Per_Quarter

When rendering, some hosts might up the automation rate to per-sample.

Cheers!

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:38 am

For smooth sweeps it shouldn't matter which method you use if you have the "Step Freq" set to off, ie if smoothing is enabled. Automating via the frequency knob directly is the most sure fire way to get smooth results. For most of the examples I have done actually use a MIDI knob mapped to the frequency knob so the incoming resolution is only 128 steps.

It's not just the filter emulation in The Drop that I spent lots of time and effort on getting right. One of the coolest non-analog modelling bits of DSP I came up with is the smoothing algorithm. This turns stepped midi cc automation from even the most wobbly hands and smooths it in very musical and cool way that leaves the expression but removes the bumps. Here is the spectrogram of the a sine wave oscillator being controlled by 128 steps of a midi controller, you can clearly see and hear the clicks in the top plot that are removed from the bottom plot

ChiTown24 · Post by **ChiTown24** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:45 pm

andy_cytomic wrote:
LiteOn wrote:Hi Andy,

what's the reason why there's no sine for the LFO?

If this already has been answered, sorry for asking again.

Cheers,
LiteOn
During development I did trial having a sine shape component to the LFO, but I decided it wasn't worth the extra knob. This forces The Drop's LFO to be a bit more percussive since the peaks are a little more sudden on a triangle, which I like. Since sine is the easiest shapes to make in digital without aliasing I figured people could use an external audio sidechain source via the FM knob is they wanted sine modulation of the cutoff.

hi andy,
would you consider adding Sine to the LFO if it was requested enough ? Sine waves & ambient music go well together

Bathrobe · Post by **Bathrobe** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:44 pm

ChiTown24 wrote: would you consider adding Sine to the LFO if it was requested enough ? Sine waves & ambient music go well together

You can use http://www.cableguys.de/midi-shaper.html
or http://www.xferrecords.com/products/lfo-tool
or an Audio sine through the sidechain for that.

Andy, can you explain a bit how Step Freq works, please?

DubLifeSD · Post by **DubLifeSD** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:49 pm

Any word on final release yet? anxious to hear the other filters...

ChiTown24 · Post by **ChiTown24** » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:35 pm

Bathrobe wrote:
ChiTown24 wrote: would you consider adding Sine to the LFO if it was requested enough ? Sine waves & ambient music go well together
You can use http://www.cableguys.de/midi-shaper.html
or http://www.xferrecords.com/products/lfo-tool
or an Audio sine through the sidechain for that.

derp derp,
yes I did happen to notice the side-chain workaround he posted, it is after all mentioned in the post I was directly responding to. derp derp, thanks also for pointing out that I could modulate it via midi instead.

BUT GET THIS!! I would still like to see a sine wave lfo option within the plugin itself, I KNOW - CRAZY RIGHT!!! ... I didn't ask for your opinion, I specifically asked Andy if he'd add the sine wave if it was requested enough. That's not something you, bathrobe, can possibly answer with redundant workaround advice. Thanks for trying though.

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:57 pm

I'm partial to sine waveforms myself. Not something that's a deal breaker at all, but it's a common enough waveform that I'm hoping it can find its way into The Drop to save me the extra effort.

pough · Post by **pough** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:18 am

ChiTown24 wrote:I didn't ask for your opinion.

Getting an unsolicited opinion is an internet setting. You can turn it off using the power switch on your router*. Also, derp derp the comment you were responding to wasn't an opinion.

* Much like getting a strangely unkind response to an attempt to help, they cannot otherwise be escaped.

@midnight · Post by **@midnight** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:53 am

No, he asked the developer a question, and somebody else posted some workarounds that I personally would never use as I like to keep my template clean. I don't like to load up a million different utility plugins to accomplish something as simple as a sine wave shape on an LFO. While the derp derps were unneccesary I understand ChiTown's frustration a lot of the time when you ask a dev a question around here you get a million brown-nosers that respond instead.

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:34 am

ChiTown24 wrote: hi andy,
would you consider adding Sine to the LFO if it was requested enough ? Sine waves & ambient music go well together

Yes I did consider adding a Sine shape to the LFO before it was even requested. I decided against it.

But, I'm always happy and open to talk about design decisions, and if you can convince not only me but everyone else of a better choice then I'll go with it. Can you please suggest which of the current LFO knobs you would prefer to remove so a "Sine" knob could be added?

andy-cytomic · Post by **andy-cytomic** » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:37 am

Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:I'm partial to sine waveforms myself. Not something that's a deal breaker at all, but it's a common enough waveform that I'm hoping it can find its way into The Drop to save me the extra effort.

Well lets talk about it then. Which of the current knobs on the LFO do you think is less important that a Sine knob?

Funkybot's Evil Twin · Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:50 am

andy_cytomic wrote:
Funkybot's Evil Twin wrote:I'm partial to sine waveforms myself. Not something that's a deal breaker at all, but it's a common enough waveform that I'm hoping it can find its way into The Drop to save me the extra effort.
Well lets talk about it then. Which of the current knobs on the LFO do you think is less important that a Sine knob?

One possible solution: right+click the LFO on/off LED to bring up a menu that allows you to change the waveform.

A right+click menu would also be helpful for selecting filter type. This would be in addition to the knob that's currently used. It would be great for jumping from one type to another for quick A/B'ing of how a given filter's tone effects the audio.

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here. Like I said, it's not a must have, but it would allow me to do basic sine sweeps from within The Drop's GUI.

Cytomic "The Drop" Resonant Filter