KVR Audio

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:04 pm

I'm assuming the new SPL TwinTube and Melda Multiband Saturator plugins I picked up are time domain (?guessing - still researching?)

Anyone have favorite saturator plugins and know what domain they operate in - time/frequency?

Just curious, and would like to test (on my PC) if I can hear a difference. That will impact how much I care about such things...

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:03 pm

as you know Melda Saturator is multiband so it can work in freq.domain, too... /off course limited to number of bands available/

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:07 pm

how do you define "saturation in time domain"? as in - program-dependent?

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:20 pm

Burillo wrote:how do you define "saturation in time domain"? as in - program-dependent?

you are right-thats the question why he uses terms usually associated with LP equalizers...but the term program-dependent is also usually associated with compressors

cron · Post by **cron** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:51 pm

I'm no coder, but wouldn't conversion to the frequency domain and back be an odd choice for that type of processing?

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:54 pm

Oops - sorry for lack of detail and description. I think by domain I meant more like we were discussing here a couple of years ago with FFT & FIR:
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=197826

I'm not a DSP guy so I'm sure I'm botching the terms here.

Basically we have the SPL DSM and ReaFir and Melda Spectral processor and Nugen SEQ2 which use FFT and operate in the Frequency domain, SPAN does also of course but we don't hear that doing anything!

I believe my other Saturator plugins are Time domain (?) - just wondering if any are in the Frequency domain that you guys know of.

The FFT/FIR processors can sound a bit 'different' than my other ones but I may be using one and not know it.

I need to go back and look at this fir tutorial: http://www.fourier-series.com/fourierse ... ilter.html

I'm creating a mess by misuing dsp terms I think - sorry. Just trying to catagorize my FFT FIR frequency/time domain plugs by how they sound.

Corrections accepted!

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:57 pm

cron wrote:I'm no coder, but wouldn't conversion to the frequency domain and back be an odd choice for that type of processing?

Yes - that's the idea. Maybe it's not likely to sound good at all?
I don't know if there are any that operate in the frequency domain but wanted to hear one.

cron · Post by **cron** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:58 pm

Ahh, I getcha...

Sadly, I've no idea if this kind of thing exists. Done a bit of Googling and it seems I'm completely out of my depth. I was only aware of FFT being used for odd spectral effects, but it seems it's a much more common building block than I thought.

kylen · Post by **kylen** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:28 pm

kvaca wrote:
Burillo wrote:how do you define "saturation in time domain"? as in - program-dependent?
you are right-thats the question why he uses terms usually associated with LP equalizers...but the term program-dependent is also usually associated with compressors

Yes linear-phase EQ. hmmm those sound very good to me, LP10 and CurveEQ for example.

I guess I'm still back to defining my terms and understanding my dsp fir vs fft vs whatever else.

Thanks guys...have homework.

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:36 pm

kylen wrote:
kvaca wrote:
Burillo wrote:how do you define "saturation in time domain"? as in - program-dependent?
you are right-thats the question why he uses terms usually associated with LP equalizers...but the term program-dependent is also usually associated with compressors
Yes linear-phase EQ. hmmm those sound very good to me, LP10 and CurveEQ for example.

I guess I'm still back to defining my terms and understanding my dsp fir vs fft vs whatever else.

Thanks guys...have homework.

well, with FFT you get thousands of bands compared to only about 6 in Melda Multiband Saturator, so its somehow limited but still I think it can be used in similar way...and the same is true if you compare MMultiband Dynamics to MSpectral Dynamics...

@midnight · Post by **@midnight** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:58 pm

I would say its in the time domain if it uses an envelope follower or something that changes over time.

So in basic terms, a compressor operates in time domain whereas a clipper does not.

As far as "saturation" plugins they are often using a combination processes to achieve the end result, so you would probably need to ask that particular developer how their plugin works.

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:11 pm

@midnight wrote:I would say its in the time domain if it uses an envelope follower or something that changes over time.

??
many LP equalizers works in time domain without using this...

@midnight · Post by **@midnight** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:35 am

kvaca wrote:
@midnight wrote:I would say its in the time domain if it uses an envelope follower or something that changes over time.
??
many LP equalizers works in time domain without using this...

without using what?

meloco_go · Post by **meloco_go** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:58 am

I think there's some confusion going on. First off, the easiest saturator is a simple waveshaping function (i.e. output = f(input)) and I guess it can be called "time-domain" processing as it operates over a stream of samples, more complicated ones may add some filtering and "memory" effects, but they are still operating over a sample stream. Multiband ones are pretty much the same, just you put a bunch of crossovers to generate a number of band-limited signals, saturate that and then sum together.
OTOH frequency domain procedures (such as FFT) does not work as saturation, they do not cause spectrum broadening.

kvaca · Post by **kvaca** » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:02 am

@midnight wrote:
kvaca wrote:
@midnight wrote:I would say its in the time domain if it uses an envelope follower or something that changes over time.
??
many LP equalizers works in time domain without using this...
without using what?

...envelope followers

Saturator plugins - time vs frequency domain?