KVR Audio

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:54 pm

My how we laughed.

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:55 pm

pdxindy wrote:You know the obvious solution then?!! a faster computer!!!! hehehe

My next computer will be a Surface Pro, so, if anything, I'm going the other direction.

seriously, my comment was just in reference to a previous claim that Cypher does not have the features that Element does, when it is the other way round...

Sure! I think they're both great, just very, very different.

btw, how does Element satisfy your gearlust for a Korg Z1?

Element has that sharp yet pleasant sound that I liked so much from my old Z1.

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:41 pm

Uncle E wrote:
pdxindy wrote:You know the obvious solution then?!! a faster computer!!!! hehehe

My next computer will be a Surface Pro, so, if anything, I'm going the other direction.

I don't get the fascination with slower less capable computers just to have it smaller... Gimme fast and capable anyday!

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:43 pm

Uncle E wrote:
btw, how does Element satisfy your gearlust for a Korg Z1?
Element has that sharp yet pleasant sound that I liked so much from my old Z1.

That is what I have Zebra for! and I use my Z1 as a controller for it... hehehe

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:45 pm

Is there even a good computer these days? I hope mine doesn't die because I'd hate to have to go through all that again.

jalcide · Post by **jalcide** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:46 pm

ariston wrote:Anything with fast modulation and played in the higher registers just sounds awful to my ears.

Really? I'm not hearing this. Just the opposite, actually. You mean aliasing? If so, I don't hear any. Not meaning to put you on the spot, but is there an example preset that exhibits what you're not liking? I'm genuinely curious.

I may test this when I get some time.

Unless Waves/Guy would like to weigh-in on any oversampling/alias filters, etc.

Cheers.

Crackbaby · Post by **Crackbaby** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:59 pm

what samplerates are you using?

Uncle E · Post by **Uncle E** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:30 pm

pdxindy wrote:I don't get the fascination with slower less capable computers just to have it smaller... Gimme fast and capable anyday!

Come to think of it, my fascination with the Surface Pro is only with for the touch screen and there are lots of cheaper more powerful touch screen Ultrabooks around today.

ariston · Post by **ariston** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:40 pm

jalcide wrote:
Really? I'm not hearing this. Just the opposite, actually. You mean aliasing? If so, I don't hear any. Not meaning to put you on the spot, but is there an example preset that exhibits what you're not liking? I'm genuinely curious.

Well, here's a quick patch I cooked up. There's some heavy hands-on modulation going on, and it's not a pleasant listen - but it's not meant to be. Just turn down your speakers/headphones - you've been warned!

https://www.hidrive.strato.com/lnk/NNhhIHMK

I'm taking parameters such as PWM, FM, Sine mod and high resonances to extremes. It's an MP3, albeit high quality, so yeah, but I recorded it at 96000 and 24 bit. There is no distortion used, and I've got it on the HD setting.

I know these are not your average sounds, and most will probably never enter this unspeakable realm, but there you are. This kind of modulation sounds better (and is thus actually usable) in Diva, Synth Squad etc...

One thing I've noticed is that the resonance behaves strangely... it's like it enters self-resonance territory pretty quickly, then leaves it again at higher settings. Is that on purpose? Is it "more" analogue? I truly don't know, because I really ain't such a synth fanatic, believe it or not.

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:41 pm

I was hearing aliasing on the FM/Phasemod stuff at 41khz 32 bit. I won't run at a higher samplerate because I like to be able to use a lot of stuff. I'd post a demo but I've uninstalled the Waves stuff.

ariston · Post by **ariston** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:52 pm

I think audio demos only take you so far. The overall impression I had when playing and tweaking Element was not very good under the circumstances I mentioned. And it's something I hear when I'm playing - I call it "aliasing" without having the technical proof. What I mean by that is that it sounds harsh and grating.

Maybe I should add that I had the same issues with Saurus. And it's not really meant as a general criticism: Saurus and Element both offer a good sound quality/CPU usage trade-off. It's just that it would be kind of sad if the CPU-munching monster synths of today didn't have anything to show for their hardware demands. There SHOULD be a difference, and there is. That doesn't make the above bad synths.

jalcide · Post by **jalcide** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:30 pm

Uncle E wrote:It also fulfills some of the gearlusting I have for the Korg OASYS, Radias, and Z1.

I own the Korg Radias full keyboard hardware (awesome synth) and now that you mention it, Element does kinda have a Radias sonic character to it.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:43 pm

Hi,

i just created a few audio demos of some presets i had created with Element. Some are inspired by sounds i already made for other synths without doing an 1:1 copy.
All those audio demos use a single instance of Element and no external FXs were added (also no compressor):

Element - BP PWM Strings 1

Element - Influx Pad

Element - Rez Sweep Pad 1

Element - Synth Brass 01

Element - FM Mod Pad 1

The FM preset is based on sine waves with using the Sine Mod, FM and Phase Mod features. The "rhythmic" effect is done by LFO modulation of the FM amount.

The vibrato in the BP Strings was added with using aftertouch. this is something i do with many of my presets, especially Lead sounds.

The Synth Brass sound (one of my favorite categories besides Synth Strings...) is not as simple to do as it looks. In some synths there is too much phasing going on while detuning and the envelopes are sometimes not right for this.
For the preset in the demo i used a DCO for OSC1 and a VCO for OSC2. The envelope shape value was turned to a positive amount for a "sharper" Attack and Decay behavior.

The "Influx Pad" is a sound i already tried to do on some other synths and is inspired by a preset of the Korg Polysix plugin. again i did not use the original synth for a 1:1 comparison in this case.

Ingo

jalcide · Post by **jalcide** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:46 pm

ariston wrote:Well, here's a quick patch I cooked up. There's some heavy hands-on modulation going on, and it's not a pleasant listen - but it's not meant to be. Just turn down your speakers/headphones - you've been warned!

https://www.hidrive.strato.com/lnk/NNhhIHMK

I'm taking parameters such as PWM, FM, Sine mod and high resonances to extremes. It's an MP3, albeit high quality, so yeah, but I recorded it at 96000 and 24 bit. There is no distortion used, and I've got it on the HD setting.

I know these are not your average sounds, and most will probably never enter this unspeakable realm, but there you are. This kind of modulation sounds better (and is thus actually usable) in Diva, Synth Squad etc...

One thing I've noticed is that the resonance behaves strangely... it's like it enters self-resonance territory pretty quickly, then leaves it again at higher settings. Is that on purpose? Is it "more" analogue? I truly don't know, because I really ain't such a synth fanatic, believe it or not.

Interesting. It's hard to know what's apples-to-apples in that sound example, but I'll take your word for it. That's disappointing. You should email Waves support and ask if it's a bug, limitation/tradeoff or an odd side-effect of a desired circuit model that's working properly, but that's just not very musical.

Yeah, I've noticed that RES thing, too. It never really enters into self-oscillation. Or, like you said, does but then drops out of it. That doesn't bother me, I've got Cytomic The Drop for that

Incredibly accurate hardware circuit modeling on it. It even has the noise pop as the virtual capacitors discharge when you turn it on, just like the real hardware.

ENV1 · Post by **ENV1** » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:49 pm

hibidy wrote:Please stop with the synth edit questions is was a joke, it was never made with synth edit

Since im the one who brought up the whole thing i feel it necessary to point out that it was not a joke.

People in another forum (if you want to call it that) have found something 'in the code' that convinced them that this Elements, (not xoxos), was made with SynthEdit, so what we have here is a claim which has neither been confirmed nor denied so far.

Asking the dev is therefore a good idea.

Alternatively someone who has the files could drag the Elements DLL in an editor and do a text search for synthedit.

If nothings there, the case can be closed.

If somethings there, the case can be closed too.

Oh boy, another VA synth. This time from Waves!