Adagio cellos - your thoughts?

[klagga]

Interested in the Adagio cellos by 8dio, http://8dio.com/?btp_product=adagio-cellos-vol-1

Are you ready to buy this without trying it beforehand?

IMHO it has a bit hefty price tag for not being able to demo the product before purchase. Anybody know if it's possible to at least sell the product if it doesn't fit your workflow?

[EvilDragon]

I'm not sure if 8dio allows resales. I wouldn't prepurchase that. Violins had tons of issues even after the delayed release.

[klagga]

Violins had tons of issues even after the delayed release.

Oops, would you care to elaborate, please?

[EvilDragon]

Just a talk I had with one of prepurchasers for Violins. The instruments simply weren't optimized, bad loops, legatos not working well, and a host of other issues. Now he's stuck with a product he can't use (because even after the update it still doesn't sound as good as his other libraries, even though most issues were fixed). Money blown, resources wasted.

[aMUSEd]

They look amazing but the price is way out of my league - particularly since it is only volume 1

[spirit]

I've also heard of issues with Violins, so wouldn't touch cellos. Why not have a look at Cinematics Strings 2 or LA Scoring Strings - they seem a reasonable match for what you're after.

[EvilDragon]

Or Spitfire Albion. All three are excellent products that offer much more for the money.

Cinematic Strings 2 - awesome sound, the easiest one to use out of the box, but doesn't come with portamento articulations.

LASS - very detailed, has awesome portamento and legato, has amazing sound shaping tools (the Stage&Color multiscript, the ART tool for staccato/spiccato patterns, etc.), and the divisi is really great too. For all these options it is quite optimized with its RAM usage, too.

Albion - it doesn't have only strings, offers a decent orchestral set for the money. It also sounds ridiculously great. If you get this, you will have to get Albion 2 and 3 at some point too, because they complement the first one great.

[klagga]

Thanks for the tips. I'm mainly looking for solo cello.

[spirit]

Thanks for the tips. I'm mainly looking for solo cello.

Then a copy of the old Gofriller solo cello is for you. Beautiful sound (as soon as you tweak the velocities to your playing style).

[klagga]

Thanks for the tips. I'm mainly looking for solo cello.

Then a copy of the old Gofriller solo cello is for you. Beautiful sound (as soon as you tweak the velocities to your playing style).

?

Gofriller isn't for sale anymore, hasn't been for a long time.

[klagga]

I'm looking at Spitfire solo strings right now, looks interesting, http://www.spitfireaudio.com/spitfire-solo-strings.html

[Echoes in the Attic]

How about LASS First Chair? This is the solo strings from the full LASS.

I'm looking forward to when Sample Modelling releases their string libraries they've been working on for years. Apparently they did the Gofriller Cello and will be taking that concept to the next level.

I own all three of the Albion series and love them but was never sold on the solo strings from spitfire. I'm sure they're nice but the hall sound is so strong in spitfire libraries that I wanted something a little more dry for solo strings. And since I wanted more control with strings anyways, I've decided to pick up LASS 2, which includes the first chair instruments. They should suffice for solos, at least until the sample modelling offerings come along.

[lingyai]

Thanks for the tips. I'm mainly looking for solo cello.

Dude -- this is THE solo cello imho

http://blakus.com/pocketblakus-192

not only the most easily expressive Kontakt instrument I've played, but, unbelieveably, free

Do check it out

[aMUSEd]

Thanks for the tips. I'm mainly looking for solo cello.

Dude -- this is THE solo cello imho

http://blakus.com/pocketblakus-192

not only the most easily expressive Kontakt instrument I've played, but, unbelieveably, free

Do check it out

Wow thanks - looks good

[Per Lichtman]

Since you mentioned you were mainly looking for solo cello, I will mention most of the libraries out there that include one.


VSL Solo Strings (either "I" for standard or "II" for con sordino)
VSL Dimension Strings (intended as orchestral elements, not exposed solo)
Kirk Hunter Solo Strings 1 or 2 (entirely different recordings, not two volumes of the same)
Xsample Chamber Ensemble Solo Strings
8Dio Adagio Cellos Vol. 1
Garritan Personal Orchestra
FocuSounds Solo Cello
Dan Dean Solo Strings
London Solo Strings
East West Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra Platinum
Miroslav Philharmonik
L.A.S.S. First Chair 2(intended as orchestral elements, not exposed solo)
DVZ Strings
Best Service Complete Classical Collection 2nd Edition - Peter Siedlaczek
pocketBlakus (and spiccato)
Spitfire Audio Solo Strings
MOTU Symphonic Instrument (difficult to find details about instrument list)
Synful Orchestra

As someone mentioned, Gofriller Cello is no longer sold. Upcoming libraries include the East West Tina Guo library (which will hopefully be an entirely different beast than the poorly received QL Solo Violin) and possibly something from Embertone Audio.

I've used many (but not all) of these libraries and listened to demos and watched videos of the rest.

First of all, you should know that the libraries are primarily differentiated by a few different things.

1) The venue and recording style of the library (space, mic distance, amount of vibrato, etc.).

2) The number of articulations.

3) The approach to legato articulations.

4) The presence (or absence) of round-robin/alternative takes for each note.

5) The number of instruments included.

6) The performance and programming paradigm.

Second, you would do well to try pocketBlakus in addition to any other library you might get. I use it alongside much more expensive libraries.

DVZ Strings offers an amazing number of instruments and articulations but if you are only trying to get a solo cello, it may be overkill so I won't discuss it further. But be aware that is among the most technically advanced libraries listed here and that most people that criticize it do so on the basis of either the tone or the price, rather than the technology.

Synful Orchestra is different from the other libraries here in terms of the way it uses resynthesis. People often comment that it has a lot of performance flexibility but the timbre is also criticized quite often. Many people have said they would like to hear the approach applied to other recordings. I don't discuss it further because I find the spiccato and staccato sounds to be very unconvincing when using it and that is essential to much of my writing. Every one of the sample libraries I've used from this list that features staccato or spiccato samples does a much more convincing job.

1) You should be able to rule out about half the libraries right off the bat by thinking about what kind of sound you want and what style(s) you like to work in. VSL Solo Strings is one of the driest and most flexible to mix with and Spitfire Audio Solo Strings is one of the wettest and least flexible. Conversely, when used without any additional FX or mixing, Spitfire Audio has one of the warmest tones (alongside 8Dio). When using the legato articulation with vibrato, Spitfire Audio Solo Strings will always have a more distant sound - the other articulations can be made to sound closer.

The only libraries that feature multiple microphone position recordings are 8Dio Adagio, Spitfire Audio Solo Strings and EWQLSO (all of which feature at least two microphone positions for most articulations).

LASS FC2 and VSL Dimension strings are ones I would take off the list right-off the bat unless you plan to use them as part of the orchestra as opposed to for exposed solo work. Several of my colleagues (composers and a performer) have also specifically commented on the tuning in LASS FC2 as not being at all suitable for solo work. I have not worked with it myself.

2) Now, in terms of the sheer number of articulations, the most comprehensive options are VSL Solo Strings (depending on the version you buy) and XSample Solo Strings. Note that XSample is especially well designed for use with notation software such as Sibelius and Finale due to some neat integration features.

At the opposite end we find products like FocuSounds solo cello or pocketBlakus (excluding spiccato option) which are only designed for either sustain or legato playing (neither with interval samples as discussed next). GPO is another example of a library that does not feature extensive articulations for solo strings.

3)Out of these libraries, the only ones that feature "legato samples" (which has become the way we refer to sampling the intervals used to transition between notes, even though it's not purely accurate from a music theory perspective) would be VSL Solo Strings, Spitfire Audio Solo Strings and (I think) 8Dio Adagio. Note that Spitfire Audio Solo Strings offers this only with a pre-mixed mic balance that uses no close mic, unlike other articulations in the library (which have 3 microphone positions). Some of the other libraries offer scripts to try to mimic this sound and any "open" Kontakt library can make use of the SIPS script if it does not feature interval legato samples already (pocketBlakus, already implements this, for example).

Legato interval samples are one of the biggest things missing in older libraries like Miroslav Philharmonik or East West Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra Gold or Platinum.

4)Alternative takes in modern libraries are usually switched between using "round-robin" or "RR" settings.

When it comes to having many alternate takes of each articulation, few VSL Solo Strings articulations feature more than 2 (and some only 1). The exceptions are generally labeled with "repetitions" in the name (which have many alternative takes).

EWQLSO features at least one arco round-robin articulation with 6 or more alternative takes for each of the solo strings and in some cases several. They also feature 3x for pizzicato and col legno, and sometimes more than this.

Spitfire Audio Solo Strings lists 4x round-robin in some cases.

For the solo cello, 8Dio lists 6x round-robin for pizzicato and Bartok (or "snap") pizzicato but does not list it for the arco articulations, unlike the ensemble sections in the same library.

Blakus offers a free spiccato instrument (in addition to the legato/sustain pocketBlakus instrument) that has 7x round-robin. Note that the 7 repetitions offer feature built-in imperfections, particularly in the higher register, so that there is a noticeable difference between alternate takes. Some find this realistic and others annoying. Either way, it's free so you can try it if you have Kontakt.

Kirk Hunter Solo Strings II mentions that has "true round robin" but I've found it difficult to find out more.

Most other libraries feature either 2x round-robin (such as XSample) or no round-robin at all.

There are several Kontakt scripts that can be used to further address this issue if the library is sampled at each semi-tone (which FocuSounds, for example, is not) and the Play Engine used in EWQLSO feature a script for something similar as well.

5) Spitfire Audio Solo Strings offers 1 violin, 1 viola and 1 cello. VSL Solo Strings offers 1 violin, 1 viola, 1 cello and 1 bass. XSample Chamber Ensemble Solo Strings and LASS FC2 both offer 2 violins, 1 viola, 1 cello and 1 bass. Kirk Hunter Solo Strings 1 offers 1 violin, 1 romantic violin, 1 viola, 1 cello and 1 bass. Kirk Hunter Solo Strings II offers 2 violins, 2 violas, 2 cellos and 1 bass (and certain combinations).

GPO features multiple instruments for most instruments in the orchestra (not just strings) and FocuSounds solo cello features both acoustic solo cello and electric cello.

6) Performance styles vary greatly not only from region to region but from orchestra to orchestra and (of course) from one performer to another. The performances are also influenced by who is running the session and what they are looking for.

VSL Solo Strings are remarkably consistent throughout the entirety of the library, not only in terms of organization but also in terms of performance. The performance style sounds influenced by the Austrian and German classical traditions and it can easily work well with early classical music (as it does not inherently force a more romantic or emotive sound). When describing this positively, people usually characterize this as precise, flexible and consistent. People that like to do a lot of automation also often appreciate that the performance isn't "baked-in" to start with. The recordings have been meticulously culled so you don't often find a lot of surprises. Those who are less positive about the library sometimes say that it doesn't sound very emotional or dramatic out of the box and that they wished it would go further in records to the "bite" in the spiccato or that there were more emotive recording options that did not require the user to add that themselves. Listen to a variety of demos to decide for yourself.

XSample offers a sound somewhere between the precision of VSL and the more "romantic" libraries listed in the next three paragraphs. It gets a bit more bit to its spiccato, for instance, but it is still a sound that largely intends for the composer/performer to mold it rather than for the samples to emote on their own. Vibrato sometimes seems more restrained in comparison to the libraries in the next three paragraphs as well.

Spitfire Audio Solo Strings advertises the English background of the library, include the performers. The performers work in both classical, film and session work. The producers decided early on that they wanted to include and preserve performance imperfections (making it a bit of an opposite to VSL). I would describe the performances as warm and fluid. A good fit for romantic through 20th century performance.

Miroslav Philharmonik, though recorded in Dvorak Hall, offers more of an eastern European sound to the performances overall. The performances are warm and emotive. This is one of the selling points that keeps the library of some interest many years after it was initially released (even though the programming is dated, unlike the performances). A good fit for romantic through 20th century performance.

8Dio and East West were both recorded on the west coast of the United States, in either California or Seattle. Their performances are most directly influenced by the Hollywood sound and they each feature several articulations that have a lot of emotion "baked-in" to the performance. They are less ideally suited to early classical repertoire (though they can be made to perform that). Once again, a good fit for romantic through 20th century performance.

There is of course lots more to take into account but hopefully this gives a bit more of an idea of what's out there. I would personally download both free cello instruments from Blakus and then look at 8Dio Adagio Cellos Vol. 1, Sptifire Audio Solo Strings, XSample Chamber Ensemble Solo Strings, VSL Solo Strings and Kirk Hunter Solo Strings 1 or 2. Each of these libraries offers something that none of the others do.

- KH Solo Strings 1: Multiple articulations dedicated to romantic violin (while others tend to have 1 or none).
- KH Solo Strings 2: More different solo strings instruments than any other library (except DVZ Strings)
- Spitfire Audio Solo Strings: The only library recorded in AIR Lyndhurst (and one of the only ones that names the soloists performers used should you wish to hire them). Also one of the warmest tone libraries.
- VSL Solo Strings: Arguably the most comprehensive set of articulations. Very consistently organized. The most flexible library for mixing purposes.
- 8Dio Adagio Cellos Vol. 1: Multiple kinds of legato, the most round-robin alternatives for pizzicato and a very unique sound.
- XSample Chamber Ensemble Solo Strings: One of the simplest to use. Great support for notation software. Really only have to load 1 patch to use ALL articulations with the keyswitches. Features 2 violins (unlike any other finalist I suggest except for the Kirk Hunter libraries).

This was initially going to be an entry in my blog but since I haven't finished it yet, I'm giving it here in the semi-complete form instead.