a couple of EEG questions

[scoplunk]

New user of EAG and EEG here. It took me a minute to figure out how to use these instruments, but now that I've got the idea, I have to say the scripting is really well done - especially the way the keyboard voicings are translated to guitar voicings in the different positions. I'm already a big fan.

I got around to using EEG in a track today and ran into some issues that I'd like to see addressed:

1. I was surprised that there's no way to latch a keyswitch. This is probably the most common way of doing keyswitches and I wonder why it isn't available with either EAG or EEG. Playing wide voicings and trying to use the strum keys takes up all my fingers, so it would be nice to pick an articulation and work with it without having to press yet another key. I tried mimicking this sort of behavior by assigning articulations to different controllers, but working with the different controller changes within a sequence seemed much more difficult than using simple latching keyswitches. Maybe I'm missing something?

2. I don't know if I just got used to the way Applied Acoustics Strum guitar works or what, but it would be nice to have different strum keys for different articulations. I suppose, if I had to pick one other set, I'd go with the mutes. With EEG, I can get around this somewhat by using the muted strum extended effect, but this is a little different than the actual strum articulation.

3. It didn't take very long before I wanted to remix the levels of the different articulations I'd chosen to use in this particular song. I know enough about the way Kontakt works that I was able to edit the group volumes and even use some internal EQ on a group to balance, for instance, the palm mutes with the strum sustains,. But, I see this as something that I'll probably want to change all the time depending on what the song demands and it would be much easier if it was available on the main GUI, especially since you could fix it so that editing a particular articulation would automatically include all the groups belonging to that articulation so that I wouldn't have to select them myself. Is something like this already possible? Did I miss it? If not, it might be a nice addition to a later version.

Thanks for the great instruments!

[Gregjazz]

1. I was surprised that there's no way to latch a keyswitch. This is probably the most common way of doing keyswitches and I wonder why it isn't available with either EAG or EEG. Playing wide voicings and trying to use the strum keys takes up all my fingers, so it would be nice to pick an articulation and work with it without having to press yet another key. I tried mimicking this sort of behavior by assigning articulations to different controllers, but working with the different controller changes within a sequence seemed much more difficult than using simple latching keyswitches. Maybe I'm missing something?

Ah, I should add that to the update list. I didn't initially put in latching keyswitches because their quirk is that they need to be able to "unlatch" if you're combining them with other methods of playing articulations (e.g. velocity range or controller range). Would a simple "unlatch" keyswitch suffice?

2. I don't know if I just got used to the way Applied Acoustics Strum guitar works or what, but it would be nice to have different strum keys for different articulations. I suppose, if I had to pick one other set, I'd go with the mutes. With EEG, I can get around this somewhat by using the muted strum extended effect, but this is a little different than the actual strum articulation.

I know what you mean, sometimes it's nice to have a dedicated "palm mute" strum key. What I currently do is put the palm mutes on a lower velocity range, which makes it easy to quickly switch back and forth for guitar powerchords, for example.

3. It didn't take very long before I wanted to remix the levels of the different articulations I'd chosen to use in this particular song. I know enough about the way Kontakt works that I was able to edit the group volumes and even use some internal EQ on a group to balance, for instance, the palm mutes with the strum sustains,. But, I see this as something that I'll probably want to change all the time depending on what the song demands and it would be much easier if it was available on the main GUI, especially since you could fix it so that editing a particular articulation would automatically include all the groups belonging to that articulation so that I wouldn't have to select them myself. Is something like this already possible? Did I miss it? If not, it might be a nice addition to a later version.

So for example, boost the palm mutes, or bring up artificial harmonics?

[scoplunk]

Ah, I should add that to the update list. I didn't initially put in latching keyswitches because their quirk is that they need to be able to "unlatch" if you're combining them with other methods of playing articulations (e.g. velocity range or controller range). Would a simple "unlatch" keyswitch suffice?

That's a good point. I approached the whole thing on a more simple minded level and was changing everything strictly with key switches. I'm not sure how you deal with a situation where other methods of switching are also being used. I guess you would treat the keyswitches like toggles: first press engages, second press disengages. But, I'd also like it, in the case where there are other keyswitches assigned, if selecting a second keyswitch automatically disengages the first one without me having to disengage it myself. But, this may be getting too complicated, so I defer to your judgement. Maybe there could just be a simple keyswitch mode where no other method of selection is allowed for the keyboard knuckleheads like me who are used to this type of system.

I know what you mean, sometimes it's nice to have a dedicated "palm mute" strum key. What I currently do is put the palm mutes on a lower velocity range, which makes it easy to quickly switch back and forth for guitar powerchords, for example.

Yes, I'm just learning how to use EEG and haven't yet experimented with doing clever things like this. This would work for the piece I'm working on now, but I can imagine times where I might want the full velocity range of the sustain for arpeggios, but also want to strum the sustains and mutes or palm mutes and the velocity switching trick wouldn't work. Anyway, you get the point. If it's something that can be included in a future version, that would be great.

BTW, when I edit in Kontakt, I see a group called Half Palm Mute, but it's not selectable from the main GUI. What is that?

So for example, boost the palm mutes, or bring up artificial harmonics?

Exactly. There are plenty of ways to work around this (automation, different tracks for different articulations) so I don't think it warrants any huge amount of change. I was just thinking that in the Mapping/Articulations page, you could have a volume control for each articulation in the area where the switching is assigned. Bonus points if we could also change the volume of the extended effects. For instance, I might want the long scrape to be quieter than the the muted strums in a particular song.

I'm also finding that I switch a lot between the Performance screen with the guitar graphic and the Mapping/Articulation page with the info about the currently playing articulation because I want to see that I've selected the proper fret position and also be sure that the desired articulation is in fact being used (this is particularly true when I go between the normal sustains and strum sustains and the difference isn't always really obvious, but important). Would there be any way to also put the Current Articulation info above the neck of the guitar in Performance mode so I could see all of this info in one place? It's easy to forget to change some of these things while creating parts and I like the reminders!

[Gregjazz]

I'm not sure how you deal with a situation where other methods of switching are also being used. I guess you would treat the keyswitches like toggles: first press engages, second press disengages.

Yeah, I thought of that, and while it seems intuitive, if you play back a sequence, or repeat a section of the sequence, sometimes the keyswitches can get unintentionally toggled.

BTW, when I edit in Kontakt, I see a group called Half Palm Mute, but it's not selectable from the main GUI. What is that?

It's part of the "palm mute" articulation, at the very highest velocity. You can increase the velocity bias to bring it in at a lower velocity. Also, with the "velocity morphing" setting on, it will crossfade into the half palm mute when playing loudly.

Exactly. There are plenty of ways to work around this (automation, different tracks for different articulations) so I don't think it warrants any huge amount of change. I was just thinking that in the Mapping/Articulations page, you could have a volume control for each articulation in the area where the switching is assigned. Bonus points if we could also change the volume of the extended effects. For instance, I might want the long scrape to be quieter than the the muted strums in a particular song.

Gotcha. I do need to check to see if the group volumes are already in use. Actually, you might even be able to tweak the group volumes in Kontakt's backend interface as a temporary solution.

I'm also finding that I switch a lot between the Performance screen with the guitar graphic and the Mapping/Articulation page with the info about the currently playing articulation because I want to see that I've selected the proper fret position and also be sure that the desired articulation is in fact being used (this is particularly true when I go between the normal sustains and strum sustains and the difference isn't always really obvious, but important). Would there be any way to also put the Current Articulation info above the neck of the guitar in Performance mode so I could see all of this info in one place? It's easy to forget to change some of these things while creating parts and I like the reminders!

Hmm, maybe--maybe if the articulation text was directly above the pick graphic.

In general, on one hand, I like having information accessible and present, but the downside is when it gets cluttered. If the interface looks complex, people will assume the instrument is complex and difficult to use. So it's a delicate balance.

[scoplunk]

Yeah, I thought of that, and while it seems intuitive, if you play back a sequence, or repeat a section of the sequence, sometimes the keyswitches can get unintentionally toggled.

I have a controller keyboard that allows me to latch keys and I've already run into this. I'm not sure what's going on there, but it does appear to get confused. I ran into the same problem when I used different control numbers for the articulations. You have to make sure you turn one of the controllers off before you turn the other one on. I suppose a cleaner way of doing it would be to assign the articulations to one controller but restrict the range of each articulation so that moving the controller would switch between them.

I don't mind using the momentary version of the keyswitches in the sequence itself. It's fairly easy to draw a held key in the graphic editor in Logic. The reason I like having the latches is more for when I'm working out a part. It's nice to pick an articulation and lock it in while I'm doing that, but maybe using the single controller idea would be better.

It's part of the "palm mute" articulation, at the very highest velocity. You can increase the velocity bias to bring it in at a lower velocity. Also, with the "velocity morphing" setting on, it will crossfade into the half palm mute when playing loudly.

OK. Thanks, I'll check this out.

Gotcha. I do need to check to see if the group volumes are already in use. Actually, you might even be able to tweak the group volumes in Kontakt's backend interface as a temporary solution.

That's what I'm doing now and this absolutely works. The only downside is that I have to make sure to select all the groups belonging to a particular articulation so that everything is scaled the same.

Hmm, maybe--maybe if the articulation text was directly above the pick graphic.

In general, on one hand, I like having information accessible and present, but the downside is when it gets cluttered. If the interface looks complex, people will assume the instrument is complex and difficult to use. So it's a delicate balance.

As far as I'm concerned, you can put the articulation text anywhere on that page and it would be fine. I totally understand your desire to keep the graphics clean and simple to avoid intimidating the user. OTOH, I'd defend my choice to have the text by saying that this is a pretty sophisticated instrument you've designed and if the user has gotten far enough along that he has managed to set up different articulations and is switching between them, then seeing which articulation is currently playing won't bother him. Maybe you could program it so that the text only appears when more than one articulation has been enabled so that it won't be there for a simple, one articulation setup.