Article - Desktop DAW Vs. iOS: Where Is The Best Place To Write Your Music?

[nasenmann]

Regarding the owerwhelming, I feel the same as you when I am buried in tons of options. That's why sometimes I just take off everythiong I don't really need, and keep just a few bunch of tools - the ones I "know" I will really want to use. But I am not limited by anything else exzcept my will - that's what I meant with my first post.

I had a teacher which kept saying to us: keep the means sparse (I hope I am saying this right).

Yes! I've always been fascinated with great stuff arising out of seemingly sparse means. That is one of the biggest reasons i enjoy chiptunes, for example.
Here's how that connects to my fascination with ipad music apps: each app is a little self-contained universe of music making.
The best comparison in desktopland would be Reason. I love reason conceptually, but found it horrible to sequence in.
With some apps, i'm getting that same feel of working inside an intelligently engineered closed system. And the sequencing flows better

I learned that in order to fully determine a program's value to me, i have to start looking at some of its constraints as a feature.
One of the most important features indeed, creatively and psychologically.


...can we just cut the system warfare? Everyone's using the stuff he likes for good reason. Getting worked up over an iFan essay is just dumb.

[jonnyG]

Site is down, but given that the url is "http://iosmusicandyou.com" then I expect a little bias.

What is wrong with all these 12 year olds that write all this online *tech* pish anyway? Everything is either a "gamechanger" or some sort of a battle to the death between formats. It's all getting very old. Why not just use both?

Still, I guess it's our fault for reading the stuff rather than just kicking the authors' heads in.

Really kind of harsh! The site is very good for reviewing and commenting on what is says...iOS music software. The article was a bit provocative (which is a fine thing). The author is obviously an iOS fan as am I and looks at why, exactly do many of us use very limited CPUs on touch devices instead of or in addition to desktop DAWs.

This discussion will not go away and will continue either there or here. I can almost hear "Get off my lawn!" while I read some of these comments. No, iPads are not as capable as laptops...yet. But....iPads are as capable as what you made great music with a few years ago. There is something much more intimate about touching and manipulating music with your fingers instead of sequencing beats, measures etc.

Also, it is worth noting that many (most?) of us are amateurs or pro-wanna-bes. For that level of music production which is largely done as a hobbyist, iPads and 16 bit audio are really just fine.

For the pros, I think touch devices will replace, enhance or supplement the gear that you attach to your desktop DAWs. For the less than pros (such as me), you can play around with software synths, plugins, Korgs, Moogs, samples for an entry price of around $5 - $25 instead of having a $100 entry fee for desktop VSTs/AUs.

Food for thought anyway...

I'm not being harsh, I'm just ticked off with online "journalists" creating platform wars. On a wider note, I see so many articles that are obviously cut and pasted from other sources (often the vendor's own press material) that I wonder if any of these basement-dwelling twelve-year-olds have any first hand experience of the products that they're actually writing about at all. Hey-ho.

Like I said, there's plenty of room for both. We're all individuals and different methods of creation will gel with different folks. The more the merrier.

But all this "Chuck your old tools down a well, because this is teh gamechanger" hyperbolic bum-gravy has gotten very old.

[oldlibmike]

Site is down, but given that the url is "http://iosmusicandyou.com" then I expect a little bias.

What is wrong with all these 12 year olds that write all this online *tech* pish anyway? Everything is either a "gamechanger" or some sort of a battle to the death between formats. It's all getting very old. Why not just use both?

Still, I guess it's our fault for reading the stuff rather than just kicking the authors' heads in.

Really kind of harsh! The site is very good for reviewing and commenting on what is says...iOS music software. The article was a bit provocative (which is a fine thing). The author is obviously an iOS fan as am I and looks at why, exactly do many of us use very limited CPUs on touch devices instead of or in addition to desktop DAWs.

This discussion will not go away and will continue either there or here. I can almost hear "Get off my lawn!" while I read some of these comments. No, iPads are not as capable as laptops...yet. But....iPads are as capable as what you made great music with a few years ago. There is something much more intimate about touching and manipulating music with your fingers instead of sequencing beats, measures etc.

Also, it is worth noting that many (most?) of us are amateurs or pro-wanna-bes. For that level of music production which is largely done as a hobbyist, iPads and 16 bit audio are really just fine.

For the pros, I think touch devices will replace, enhance or supplement the gear that you attach to your desktop DAWs. For the less than pros (such as me), you can play around with software synths, plugins, Korgs, Moogs, samples for an entry price of around $5 - $25 instead of having a $100 entry fee for desktop VSTs/AUs.

Food for thought anyway...

I'm not being harsh, I'm just ticked off with online "journalists" creating platform wars. On a wider note, I see so many articles that are obviously cut and pasted from other sources (often the vendor's own press material) that I wonder if any of these basement-dwelling twelve-year-olds have any first hand experience of the products that they're actually writing about at all. Hey-ho.

Like I said, there's plenty of room for both. We're all individuals and different methods of creation will gel with different folks. The more the merrier.

But all this "Chuck your old tools down a well, because this is teh gamechanger" hyperbolic bum-gravy has gotten very old.

I've seen many such sites....but not this one! The site owner writes long detailed tutorials and almost always puts in useful information on actually using the apps (not just press releases). Anyway, use what you like using. The iPad is not the second coming, neither is it something to discount in music making. I personally bounce back and forth between Logic and the iPad in my own amateur creations but use what works for you.

[jonnyG]

@ oldlibmike: They've finally fixed whatever-it-was that was blocking access to the article, so I can finally find out for myself.

[Invisiblesupermonkey]

One thing I would add, ipad is not the be all and end all... But it did reignite my love of music creation via computer and led to the purchase of a desktop DAW...



Just saying

[sealpt]

I agree on the it's not the end all, but it ignited the desire for me to write too. I had purchased a Axiom 25 keyboard that I keep here at work and I was going to bring my mac book in here to write at the noon hour but just never did. The keyboard is in my desk untouched for about 2 years now. I wouldn't write at home either, just no time. My best friend told me about the Ipad but explained that each music app wasn't going to be like Logic audio so don't think it is going to help in your writing.

But the truth is, it did and does help. Not only do I write at noon, but write before I go to my classes in the evening. The commute is too far to cover from work, home, then back to school so I just hang out in the parking lot and write songs.

Now granted, it is tougher and more cumbersome writing on the Ipad, but at least I'm writing again, which is more than I've done in the past year before I bought the Ipad.

Shawn

[nasenmann]

Now granted, it is tougher and more cumbersome writing on the Ipad, but at least I'm writing again, which is more than I've done in the past year before I bought the Ipad.

I find sequencing harder and recording easier. And i don't mind that shift at all, always wanted to record more.
But of course there are things i'd rather do on a PC. Different interface, different music, to a degree.

[sealpt]

I agree. I think, "why don't I write this on my MacBook and be done with it?" But I know I never will. Maybe I'm just so burned out from finishing the music project that I worked on for so long that I just have no desire to be stuck in front of that screen in that room anymore. Writing on the iPad can just be so spur of the moment, which is kind of what music should be really.

All I know is the iPad won't replace my MacBook and the MacBook won't replace my iPad.

Shawn.

[polaris20]

All I know is the iPad won't replace my MacBook and the MacBook won't replace my iPad.

Shawn.

I agree. With the integration of GB for iOS and GB/Logic for Mac, they're two different tools I use, and both are great.

[dayjob]

i'd buy a drum machine or something like the octatrack before getting an iPad. an actual musical instrument would be far more productive for me... and one less screen to stare at.

yeah. .buttons, knobs, sliders win over ipad anyday.. for me anyways.

[mod4]

I used an mpc for years sequencing to synths to a digital mixer live setup, this made everything easy you only had to listen adjust reloop etc. i could spend hours making music this way, i never liked daw format / sampling sounds.

I got an ipad because the synths are actually better and more cost effective in terms of power usage/ portability than a rack synth. The sequencers and daws are ok but touch is a pain, it needs mouse input you can jailbreak and add mouse support.

I recently got a tablet pc with wacom pen input and presonus studio one which works great, there are hundreds of vst instruments free and studio one is so easy to use, one touch drag and drop. Pro version is a must have fx dynamics all usable but you will need at least i3 cpu for full multitracking.

So i have tried all options but i still prefer the mpc style sequencing, using a digital mixer 01v96 firewire and adat, pc for final mix fx etc. the ipad is still a toy for me, it has great synths but the cck connection is not great and after a while you get bored of tapping on a screen and you will want a mouse.

[asnor]

Writing in a DAW was pretty overwhelming for me and I fought it for a long time. I eventually learned a DAW well enough to become efficient with it, afterwhich it stopped being a struggle and became the powerful tool it promises to be. It helped that I picked a DAW and stuck with it, instead of DAW hopping in search of "the one". They're all capable. If your current DAW is stable on your system, stick with it, learn it well, forget about all the other options out there. Reap the benefits.

As far as iPads; I find them really easy to work with. I like the hands on aspect, being able to directly manipulate various aspects simultaneously with my hands. It is just fingers on glass, but what makes it work for me is the responsiveness of the device and the software. Given a well designed interface, it can be like working on physical hardware. Will it replace my DAW? No. Integrate with my DAW? YES!

BTW, there's still plenty to be said for the simplicity of pencil, paper and a tape recorder.

[the_s_rabbit]

Use whatever tools you are most comfortable with. It doesn't have to be one or the other. What I would like to see is more interoperability between desktop DAWs and mobile apps.

I posted the Auria vs. Logic thread and I ended up buying Logic. I did all of the music for a song on the iPad with a multitude of apps. After I had a decent mix going in the Multitrack DAW app, I bounced each track (one at a time to wav files. Grrrrr) and loaded them into a Logic project. I ended up going back to pieces of the song that I had saved in GarageBand, Korg synths, Magellan, and other apps and brought those into Logic too, after realizing that those parts needed special further treatment.

When I started the process for the song I mentioned above, most of the apps that I was using were new to me. And Logic is entirely new to me. The last desktop DAW that I used was Cakewalk around 2000 and I never took the time to be any good at it.

Sequencing for me is much easier on a touch screen. I can play the parts on a virtual keyboard and then tweak it to my liking. Quickly tap areas in a grid to construct a song from patterns or mix and match different instruments from different patterns like the Korg iKaossilator. Very nice. I don't have a midi controller or keyboard for my computer. Editing audio, especially trimming, splitting, etc. is really nice with Multitrack DAW. It was nice to have that stuff squared away on the iPad before moving the project to Logic. Editing audio with the keyboard and mouse sucks. Having a trackpad makes it a little better, but not as nice as using the touchscreen on an iPad. But, doing the stuff that doesn't involve zooming, clicking, dragging, etc. is much easier in Logic. Activities such as looping or creating a bunch of new tracks (and retaining the previous track's properties) and copying or moving audio into those tracks. And also being able to have unlimited tracks. Though this particular song that I did only had 36. It should have had more though. There were some mistakes that I made on the iPad that I couldn't really resolve. For instance the beats from iKaosillator. There is no way to separate the kick, snare, cymbals, etc into separate audio files. I ended up adding an additional kick in Logic and EQing the hell out of the drums from the iPad to favor the snare and cymbals.

I have a LOT to learn about these apps and I have TONS to learn about Logic. That's ok, because I love learning. Seems to go hand in hand with being a person who likes to create music.

All that said, I really, really enjoyed using the iPad as my primary tool in the creative process. I've made a few song now that are all iPad. The latest was mixed and mastered in Logic and the first few were mixed and mastered in Audacity (ugh!)

It started with GarageBand, then Korg iMS-20. Now I have a ton of apps, and each of them brings different things to the table. Get the Korg iPolysix and mess around with the Kaoss pad. There's no way that I could come up with those kinds of sounds on the fly like that in a desktop environment. Not without huge investments in external equipment. And then you lose all portability. Some of the sounds from Magellan, Sunrizer, Animoog are just friggin awesome, and so easy to tweak!

So for me: most of the creative process for new compositions will probably take place on the iPad. Final enhancements, additional embellishments, mixing, and mastering will be done in the desktop DAW. But I'm not going to restrict myself to that formula. It could change at anytime.

[oldlibmike]

Use whatever tools you are most comfortable with. It doesn't have to be one or the other. What I would like to see is more interoperability between desktop DAWs and mobile apps.

I posted the Auria vs. Logic thread and I ended up buying Logic. I did all of the music for a song on the iPad with a multitude of apps. After I had a decent mix going in the Multitrack DAW app, I bounced each track (one at a time to wav files. Grrrrr) and loaded them into a Logic project. I ended up going back to pieces of the song that I had saved in GarageBand, Korg synths, Magellan, and other apps and brought those into Logic too, after realizing that those parts needed special further treatment.

When I started the process for the song I mentioned above, most of the apps that I was using were new to me. And Logic is entirely new to me. The last desktop DAW that I used was Cakewalk around 2000 and I never took the time to be any good at it.

Sequencing for me is much easier on a touch screen. I can play the parts on a virtual keyboard and then tweak it to my liking. Quickly tap areas in a grid to construct a song from patterns or mix and match different instruments from different patterns like the Korg iKaossilator. Very nice. I don't have a midi controller or keyboard for my computer. Editing audio, especially trimming, splitting, etc. is really nice with Multitrack DAW. It was nice to have that stuff squared away on the iPad before moving the project to Logic. Editing audio with the keyboard and mouse sucks. Having a trackpad makes it a little better, but not as nice as using the touchscreen on an iPad. But, doing the stuff that doesn't involve zooming, clicking, dragging, etc. is much easier in Logic. Activities such as looping or creating a bunch of new tracks (and retaining the previous track's properties) and copying or moving audio into those tracks. And also being able to have unlimited tracks. Though this particular song that I did only had 36. It should have had more though. There were some mistakes that I made on the iPad that I couldn't really resolve. For instance the beats from iKaosillator. There is no way to separate the kick, snare, cymbals, etc into separate audio files. I ended up adding an additional kick in Logic and EQing the hell out of the drums from the iPad to favor the snare and cymbals.

I have a LOT to learn about these apps and I have TONS to learn about Logic. That's ok, because I love learning. Seems to go hand in hand with being a person who likes to create music.

All that said, I really, really enjoyed using the iPad as my primary tool in the creative process. I've made a few song now that are all iPad. The latest was mixed and mastered in Logic and the first few were mixed and mastered in Audacity (ugh!)

It started with GarageBand, then Korg iMS-20. Now I have a ton of apps, and each of them brings different things to the table. Get the Korg iPolysix and mess around with the Kaoss pad. There's no way that I could come up with those kinds of sounds on the fly like that in a desktop environment. Not without huge investments in external equipment. And then you lose all portability. Some of the sounds from Magellan, Sunrizer, Animoog are just friggin awesome, and so easy to tweak!

So for me: most of the creative process for new compositions will probably take place on the iPad. Final enhancements, additional embellishments, mixing, and mastering will be done in the desktop DAW. But I'm not going to restrict myself to that formula. It could change at anytime.

Re: Multitrack mixdowns, you can save time by closing your MultiTrack project and from the project window, select Wi-Fi. You can then on your desktop browser copy all of the tracks from MultiTrack without having to mix them down one at a time! I also use Logic on the desktop - steep learning curve but worth it!

[Wormhelmet]

The ipad apps inspired me to start making music again. Then I went and bought some new controller, a hardware VA synth, Launchpad for Ableton, Geist to use with my padKontrol and now I'm in the just playing around stage again. Last two complete songs were done on ipad. One in NanoStudio, one in Beatmaker 2.

Better get back to ipad writing...