Abbey Road/Waves REDD Console Channel Strip

[kvaca]

well yesteday I ve spent a lot of time comparing various REDD plugins to other similar plugins like Radiator,VTP,Tube Saturator etc...

I have compared only saturation model /not eq/ in these plugins in blind tests and after some time I ve came to a conclusion that all sounds very analog and good but also very similar to each other, only VTP and especially Radiator being slightly more crispier than others...so I couldnt resist and did some plugin measurements and now /as usually in that case/ Im a little bit shocked:

first-I ve looked at Radiator's brigter top end...and found that in 44kHz it colors the sound differently than in 96 kHz...it creates wide peak in 15 kHz and after that it rolloff almost everything above 17 kHz...I simply dont believe that this has something to do with analog model but I can believe that it has something to do with antialias filter used here...funny thing is the only plugin I know that uses similar filter is StudioDevil VTP /possible collaboration here?/

personally I dont prefer any unwanted coloring in sat. plugins which cannot be switched off...so the only solution for me is to use Radiator in 96kHz

now back to REDD:
Im not sure if it models similar 2 stage tube clipping as Radiator, not found any mention in manual /?/...but looking at testtone I could tell that all REDD plugins are closer to model simple diode clipping than any tube stage at all what is very strange to me...anybody knows why /??/
moreover- REDD17 uses steep hp filter at 30Hz which cannot be switched off-unacceptable for me...and REDD 37-51 on the other side-while not using any hp filter- uses some sort of gentle antialias filter removing some frequencies above 10 kHz...unacceptable and again cannot be switched off
moreover ALL REDD plugins are using some strange autogain feature when driven hard enough, which I think has nothing to do with saturation modelling and again cannot be switched off...

so my decission-

I would prefer good old Tube Saturator for 44 kHz...but only for drums /becouse of aliasing/ its still simply the best model of 2 stage tube device and is free of any unwanted coloring...unfortunately it cannot be used realtime in aliasfree mode /sample rate 96 kHz and above/ becouse of crazy CPU load...

for 96 kHz I would prefer Radiator...CPU load is similar to TS in 44 KHz so its still usable and without that unwanted coloring on hi end as with 44 kHz sr

finally - Im very confused with all that REDDs...not very convincing tube model...a lot of coloring which cannot be avoided easily...but still very usable eq model
so- for eq-ing its nice, but for clipping I would probably choose Studio Devil VTP instead...at least for REDD 17 which should be tube based device according to manual

[Fummunda]

For what it's worth, a few weeks ago I bought the Waves REDD plugin. Very impressed with it; it certainly gives me more options when working in the digital realm. And I do have a measuring stick to go against when using the REDD.17...



The plugin does just fine for itself in comparison. The desk is what someone here referred to as the "Dutch" desk, though it's been a very very long time since Bovema owned it. It's spent time in New Jersey and California before settling in its new home, so you may now feel free to call it the Kansas City desk.

[DuX]

This looks like an old German V2 rockets launch base. LOL

[Fummunda]

Jah, it's the bomb.

[hibidy]

This looks like an old German V2 rockets launch base. LOL

Day had WAVES of making you like a mix

[tronholic]

Im not sure if it models similar 2 stage tube clipping as Radiator, not found any mention in manual /?/...but looking at testtone I could tell that all REDD plugins are closer to model simple diode clipping than any tube stage at all what is very strange to me...anybody knows why /??/

Hello,

Do you mean symmetrical clipping with certain kind of harmonic and inharmonic component spectrum when you refer to simple diode clipping?

When sweeping through combinations of GAIN and DRIVE settings above treshold of clipping, all three REDD console emulations by Waves create asymmetrical clipping and symmetrical clipping.Increasing GAIN and DRIVE will eventually turn clipping into symmetrical at certain point.This is without
any EQ applied.All three console emulations create different kinds of clipping characteristics, so they are not identical in this regard either( waves on oscilloscope are different).

Because Siemens V72s modules and in the case of REDD.51 those REDD.47 modules have been designed to lower even order harmonics relative to odd order harmonics( goal was to be clean), actual clipping tends to be more symmetrical than in single stage triode circuits(which have asymmetry with strong 2nd
harmonic) or in two stage circuit variants that do not have strong cancellation of even harmonics.As a side note transformers tend to clip in symmetrical way.

Real REDD modules are transformer coupled in and out plus there are other transformers in normal signal path of these consoles.From this point of view REDD consoles have lots of signal altering electronics( several amplifier stages and transformers).

If these plug-ins are true to normal signal path in real consoles,
then comparing them to single stage triode circuit models, two stage circuit models or diode circuit models might not be the most accurate way to judge them(IMHO).Feel free to refute all assumptions, we do learn through dialog after all.

By the way, there are audible differences in the ANALOG(hiss&hum) between channels ( Channel I vs. Channel II) in all three console emulations( on headphones it is clear).One can confirm this by measurements as well.

Best wishes,

[kvaca]

Im not sure if it models similar 2 stage tube clipping as Radiator, not found any mention in manual /?/...but looking at testtone I could tell that all REDD plugins are closer to model simple diode clipping than any tube stage at all what is very strange to me...anybody knows why /??/

Hello,

Do you mean symmetrical clipping with certain kind of harmonic and inharmonic component spectrum when you refer to simple diode clipping?

no,...maybe I should explain it better now...for me its like comparing sound and waveform of typical tube based guitar preamp to a typical guitar distortion pedal /BOSS etc/...they both produce similar asymetrical clipping but they do sound different-the first/tube based/ being more round,warm or full...and the second /diode or transistor based/ being more harsh, agressive and nasal...

and similar differences in sound I can find between Radiator and REDD...when both driven hard off course