KORG to re-release the MS-20!

[Restless]

i undertsand the synth itself does not respond to midi

It does, it has MIDI IN and MIDI over USB as well.

but just for the pitch/keyboard. that obviously is a given.
what i meant the controls don't respond to midi ...and i'm fine with that.

wrote:
(would cost 15$ extra dollars to do)

nope. And adding MIDI CC Out functionality for all knobs would not be simple at all.

don't make me laugh. 15$ is an over estimate. they even had all of the midi done for the ms20v controler allready! the arturia minilab sports 16 endless knobs and 8 pads...cost a total of 99$...how much u think they spent for the midi sensoring. not more than 10$. surely not more than the hardware.

and is not simple? they rebuilt a synth with all the circuits , they even implemented digital control for the oscillators and couldn't add midi to the hardware? it would have been super easy for them.
especially considering how much more desirable it would make it (don't they see how much the ms20v controller keeps selling for?), they shot themselfs in teh foot with this omission.

they defenetly have a lost sale from me.

The controller uses encoders, the synth analogue potentiometers. The MIDI they did for the controller is completely useless in what regards the synth. It would be a big job to read the value of the analogue pots and transform the values into digital data, it would require as many ADC's as there are pots and extra R&D/ testing as well.

[Restless]

i undertsand the synth itself does not respond to midi

It does, it has MIDI IN and MIDI over USB as well.

Note on and off only. No velocity

[EvilDragon]

Yes. The original didn't have velocity either. It's a REISSUE and a point-to-point recreation of the original, so that was their point.

[Sequent]

I'm pretty sure the original didn't have velocity either. Velocity on synths came a little bit later. Yeah, it would have been cool to have maybe... but it's being tagged as a re-issue, and the cost, etc.

I will be happy if it maybe responds to velocity over midi though.

Edit... EvilDragon beat me to it!

[Restless]

I will be happy if it maybe responds to velocity over midi though.

Edit... EvilDragon beat me to it!

That is what I meant, it doesn't respond to velocity via the MIDI in either.

[Wormhelmet]

Good grief people. It's a real analog ms20 for $600. If no midi control values transmitted for knob movements loses the sale for you, then all the more for people like me that think its coming out at quite a bargain already. I read that it will receive note messages. I did not read it would receive note on note off messages exclusively and not read velocity messages for the note. Where was that written?

[olikana]

The controller uses encoders, the synth analogue potentiometers. The MIDI they did for the controller is completely useless in what regards the synth. It would be a big job to read the value of the analogue pots and transform the values into digital data, it would require as ,many ADC's as there are pots and extra R&D/ testing as well.

and u would think korg which specializes in synth hardware since 30 years would be able to convert pot data into cc in a breeze.
don't tell me it's a big job in 2013. they simply couldn't be bothered to do it , which is different.
and imo considering how much the midi controller sells for USED they made a big mistake.
i'm not clogging up my desk if it can't double up as a midi controller and i doubt many bedroom musicans would.

i undesratnd it would be a big and expensive job to get the analog synth controlled bi midi...but having the hardware control the midi is not a big job in 2013.
heck i can control even cc through my breath but not from turning big knobs on a piece of harware. are u serious?

[Sequent]

I will be happy if it maybe responds to velocity over midi though.

Edit... EvilDragon beat me to it!

That is what I meant, it doesn't respond to velocity via the MIDI in either.

Oh, okay. But... doesn't matter. The original one didn't either.

[Sequent]

Good grief people. It's a real analog ms20 for $600. If no midi control values transmitted for knob movements loses the sale for you, then all the more for people like me that think its coming out at quite a bargain already. I read that it will receive note messages. I did not read it would receive note on note off messages exclusively and not read velocity messages for the note. Where was that written?

I think we're all just having a discussion... probably because it hasn't been written anywhere so far, people are just curious. I don't think there's any question that it's coming out at a very attractive price. I for one can't wait for mine to arrive.

[Restless]

Good grief people. It's a real analog ms20 for $600. If no midi control values transmitted for knob movements loses the sale for you, then all the more for people like me that think its coming out at quite a bargain already. I read that it will receive note messages. I did not read it would receive note on note off messages exclusively and not read velocity messages for the note. Where was that written?

I think we're all just having a discussion... probably because it hasn't been written anywhere so far, people are just curious. I don't think there's any question that it's coming out at a very attractive price. I for one can't wait for mine to arrive.

It actually was written. From Korg's website:

"USB:

Type B, USB-MIDI Input/Output

* Only note messages (velocity is not used) can be transmitted and received.

MIDI:

MIDI Input

*Only note messages (velocity is not used) can be transmitted and received."




I have alteady paid a downpayment for one anyway.

Question: if you track the pitch of an external sound does it track velocity then?

[Wormhelmet]

Just got back from guitar center trying a Moog little phatty. Didn't do it for me. Now the sub phatty might be a different story, but definitely the MS20 with all knobs right there and patching available does it for me. Unfortunately I have never played around with the real deal MS20. If it is anything response wise with those filters like my iMS20, I will be thrilled. The filters on the iMS20 get really screechy and drive really well. Does anyone know some commercial music I could look up that is heavy with MS20 sounds?

I know it's just a discussion, but sometimes that theoretical point that you think might be an issue will melt away when sitting in front of one. I know that's happening with my minibrute. There was mention of not being able to bring the minibrute's saw and square up full mix together, but found the answer to that and actually played with the new possibilities and agreed it was a feature -

From Arturia forum discussions:

http://www.arturia.com/evolution/smf/in ... ic=12382.0

Basically a discussion talking about not going full with saw and square waveforms and phase cancellation happening, but some suprising bonuses happening because of the reasons behind the limitation.

So theoretical stuff does not always make a difference with machine in hand.

[Wormhelmet]

About the velocity messages - thanks for posting it. I just read that on the spec page. Still wouldn't keep me from getting one. Particularly if the original didn't have it. I think being able to sequence it from any sequencer is enough for me.

[urosh]

are u serious?

yes he is. Restless however underestimated cost. It's not just about reading pots with bunch of ADCs. Every single pot would have to be dual, every dual pot would have to be triple and so on. 3 or 4 layer PCB compared to simple 2-layer for straight up clone.



...
BTW, on hot topic (that emerged out of thin air more or less) of "digital control" of VCOs in MiniMS:
a) there are digital controls and digital controls. What are people afraid of is digital control loop around VCO, but
b) that's not happening in MiniMS, or Korg is blatantly lying about MiniMS being close replica of original (full blow loop around VCOs would require major redesign of VCOs and related circuits)
c) to echo others: MS VCOs don't need any frickin digital control/stabilisation/compensation, if all parts are within requred specs (and that was not much of a problem even 35 years ago)

[kritikon]

It's quite likely it's a deliberate policy not to have anything but basic midi on the new one. Arturia have unashamedly marketed their Minibrute as being more fun to play, and more conducive to sound creation by making you twiddle pots and not rely on midi. And it doesn't appear to have affected the demand - rightly so IMO. As mentioned - the original didn't have any kind of midi on it and it has never stopped it being used extremely effectively in the midi age. It has midi note on/off - that's plenty. If anyone seriously wants more midi control, they can get a midi/CV controller and do exactly what they want. By keeping midi out of it and keeping price down - no problem with me. I'd rather have it almost midiless and $600 than full of midi crap and $1000 (although I'm biased - I've already got a decent converter.

And most converters will let you easily have an MS20 responding to velocity. I used to do it - and know what? I don't even bother with it nowadays, because velocity really isn't important with that sort of synth. What really is important if you want any kind of control, is filter automation and env amounts. All easily done with a converter (which are mostly completely midi controllable). If you want to control filter by velocity - do it by a converter (and directly on the filter without mucking around with velocity). If you want to have volume control - go buy some other type of synth, because pianos and plucks are NOT what you get an MS20 for. If you do - get your head examined. Does anyone seriously complain about 303s not having velocity? Same applies to MS20s IMO.

And before we get the whines about how expensive it is to buy an MS20 and a converter - go look at original ones (that you also need a converter with). Gotta say if they genuinely sell these buggers at $600, it's the fuckin bargain of the century.

Not even sure what they go for nowadays - last time I looked it was something like 1250 quid years back. What's that? nearly $2000? Tell you what - I'll sell mine for $2500 and I'll throw in a top of the range Kenton controller. Then see how tough it is buying a brand new Korg MS20 with onboard midi for a whole millionaire-bankrupting $600.

[urosh]

It's quite likely it's a deliberate policy not to have anything but basic midi on the new one.

I think it was only sane choice. So, lets say they add velocity. That would mean they would need to add "Velocity out" on patch panel. And then bunch of people would scream "but we waaaaaant PWM on VCO1". And some other would scream "but you should have added oscillator sync". And then "why the hell there is no VCO outs for modular integration". And so on and so on. And it would not be MS-20 replica any more. IMveryHO, Korg made only logical decision: straight up clone of MS, circuit/layout wise, just with modern kbd scaning and MIDI note i/o.