Linux...anybody using it?

[jeffh]

2: Obscure minority, my foot. Between podcasters, DJs (both club and streaming radio), and film sound engineers, the number of people who work with audio who don't need MIDI to make music are quite significant. And the tools we've been arguing over are sufficient for those purposes.

Whatever... Let's do a poll right here on KVR, do you use MIDI, yes or no? You think you're going to win that argument?

3: Will you please stop with the insults?

What insults? Insults to you? I don't recall making any at you, if you're referring to the other Linux developers, I've wasted enough time talking to them that I've earned the right to tell the public about those experiences. It's none of your business how I discuss them.

It's not scoring you any points, unless you happen to be trolling. And if that's what you are doing, then congratulations.
But that works against you if you want Linux developers to take an honest look at your software and cooperate with you; people don't tend to be cooperative when you tell them that their work is a crap-fest, and that they're pretenders next to you, the Only True Developer.

Thank goodness that no matter how smart, successful, talented, or anything else you may be, there's always an entire internet full of people to give you advice on how you should be conducting yourself

It's like any number of famous Linus Torvalds rants that go like this:

Linus: [something snarky]
Random Internet Dude: you should really be more of a politician instead of speaking your mind, you'd accomplish your goals better
Linus: I think I've accomplished my goals just fine, thanks.. Who the f_ck are you again?

, and rightfully so.

But I'll tell you what, you go write your own DAW, and when your brilliant PR skills cause your project to reign supreme over mine with goodwill, downloads and donations, then I'll eat humble pie and follow your lead.

You know, some people respect me for having the balls to tell it like it is, rather than pretending everything is sunshine and butterflies with Linux audio, and those are the people I'd rather impress, not the ball-less pacifists who are too afraid to rock the boat because it might cause somebody to un-friend them on Facebook...

[glokraw]

3: Will you please stop with the insults?

KVR rule #7 "Never ask someone to stop using insults,
the advertising revenue depends on them"

Actually, sound reason and a bit of humor may add
even more to the advertising coffers than trading insults,
but cash is cash, and KVR luvs that cash rulz

The real important question:
Is Jeff, or Reteo, the bearded guy in the T-shirt ads ---->

[jeffh]

The real important question:
Is Jeff, or Reteo, the bearded guy in the T-shirt ads ---->

KVR Rule #27: you must not out me as the bearded guy in the T-shirt ad...

[leggie]

If this is still a Linux thread you lot out there ?

Got some time to connect the Raspberry Pi and load Raspbian "wheezy" wish I had that much power as a young-un today, interesting to see if a music app comes out of it

[jeffh]

You make my point well, those new people don't care about your Ex,
and focussing on your Ex, works against promoting your products.
Play only to your strengths.

But they do... If my project is seen as being part of Linux audio, those 99% of Windows users who went right back to Windows after trying Linux won't give me the time of day based on their experiences with Ardour. I have to be the Linux audio rebel to pique their interest, it's true...

And you know full well there are 27 people using linux audio

Names and addresses or it didn't happen

Back to the sugary suite mode, does the new Hexter dssi work fine
in Pydaw? The new editing mode really extends it's usefulness,
and the history vault of sysex banks available.

No, I've forked DSSI into my own plugin standard, PyDAW isn't hosting DSSI anymore, and the plugins can't be loaded in other DSSI hosts anymore either (but I have some stunning performance, memory usage and stability gains to show for doing that).

Way-V will gain FM capabilities and an extra oscillator or 3 at the next major update of PyDAW sometime this year... I wrote Way-V from scratch in 1.5 weeks back in December, at the time I decided not to bite off more than I can chew by adding FM, but it won't be hard to do...

Someone posted here awhile back, that timemachine was buggy,
and abandoned...that might be a good app to revitalize, I use it
every week, never had a bug show up, but it sure is handy.
Cheers

I have no idea what you're talking about...

[jeffh]

If this is still a Linux thread you lot out there ?

Got some time to connect the Raspberry Pi and load Raspbian "wheezy" wish I had that much power as a young-un today, interesting to see if a music app comes out of it

If you decide you want to try PyDAW on the Raspberry Pi, please let me know how it went. I'm not sure if the Pi has enough power to run it, but I'd be interested in knowing... I've been meaning to test PyDAW on a Samsung ARM Chromebook, but every time I go down to Best Buy to pick one up, they're out of stock.

[leggie]

If this is still a Linux thread you lot out there ?

Got some time to connect the Raspberry Pi and load Raspbian "wheezy" wish I had that much power as a young-un today, interesting to see if a music app comes out of it

If you decide you want to try PyDAW on the Raspberry Pi, please let me know how it went. I'm not sure if the Pi has enough power to run it, but I'd be interested in knowing... I've been meaning to test PyDAW on a Samsung ARM Chromebook, but every time I go down to Best Buy to pick one up, they're out of stock.

Looks good, ill try it out later.

[ret]

2: Obscure minority, my foot. Between podcasters, DJs (both club and streaming radio), and film sound engineers, the number of people who work with audio who don't need MIDI to make music are quite significant. And the tools we've been arguing over are sufficient for those purposes.

Are you saying film sound engineers and composers don't need or use midi?

But that works against you if you want Linux developers to take an honest look at your software and cooperate with you; people don't tend to be cooperative when you tell them that their work is a crap-fest, and that they're pretenders next to you, the Only True Developer.

Oh please. After spending hours and hours of quality time reading thoughts from those long time Big Name linux audio developers the only thing I felt was sadness. When they dead seriously talk complete horseshit like "there are no professional audio software for Windows" or after a decade+ banging their (and users) head to the wall say "we can't change our audio system to similar kind of what windows or mac have. Not because it is impossible but because we don't wanna do it because we have spend so long on this current one" or the ever classic "everyone is quite happy with jack" then atleast I knew I've been betting for the wrong horse on this race.

They say linux is anarchy. In that case it seems our only hope is a project like PyDAW or something else that becomes popular, raises middle finger and says the emperor has no clothes.

Funny enough some developers seem to hate sites like kvraudio with a passion. Perhaps they have a hard time hearing what end-users say.

[kmatheussen]

Someone posted here awhile back, that timemachine was buggy,
and abandoned...that might be a good app to revitalize, I use it
every week, never had a bug show up, but it sure is handy.
Cheers

I also implicated that you should use jack_capture instead, since
it doesn't have any known bugs, is actively developed, is simpler
to use, and can do everything timemachine can, and a lot more. jack_capture
is not a newcomer either, if you are afraid of that, it's
almost as old as timemachine, and it's included with all
the big linux distros.

To run jack_capture in "timemachine mode", use the -tm switch.

[jeffh]

They say linux is anarchy. In that case it seems our only hope is a project like PyDAW or something else that becomes popular, raises middle finger and says the emperor has no clothes.

QFT. That belongs at the top of the list of famous Linux audio quotes...

Funny enough some developers seem to hate sites like kvraudio with a passion. Perhaps they have a hard time hearing what end-users say.

They tend to hide in their own corners of the internet, where those who refuse to pretend that everything in Linux audio is great as it is get run off. Like how linuxmusicians.com ran me right out of town, they heckled me at every turn, while the 3 people on there who were just regular users and not developers all sided with me. When your Linux audio fanboy forum only has 20 regular posters, and 17 of them are developers promoting their own projects, that's how you know you're unpopular. But those 3 users eventually go back to Windows, and get replaced by 3 new users who also won't do it forever...

That's also why I chose to start engaging the "real public" at KVR instead of getting trolled in the Linux-sphere for being anti-Jack and anti-LV2. My ~1 y/o project with my <6 month old DAW may not be suitable for everybody's needs just yet, but I stand by what I've done with it, and it will eventually surpass the other 7-12 y/o Linux DAWs that still have yet to get it right.

[jeffh]

Looks good, ill try it out later.

Cool... BTW, I just realized that you would need to edit the CFLAGS in each of my Makefiles to use on ARM. You may already know what to do there, but if you don't, let me know and I'll add a separate RaspberryPi Makefile to the project(I can only guess on CFLAGS, as I don't have a RaspberryPi handy to test it on).

Just let me know if you need/want the help... If you do it yourself, I would probably recommend leaving in the -floop-optimize and -O3, and just get rid of the x86 specific flags like -msseX, -fpath=sse, etc... and replace with the equivalent CFLAGS for RaspberryPi

Thanks buddy

[OzWozEre]

^ Dude, did you just author a freakin DAW in Python?

PyDAW!!!???!!!??!?!!

Holy shit man that's so awesome

GOLD STAR FOR YOU!



(This is why I love Python)

[tweetor_eator]

ableton is or at least was written in python - personally i prefer my sequencers to be a little more low level than just straight python code, yes i know you can embed C into python as i code it myself.

i am a long time linux user. i do servers n stuff.
im also a musician and i have tried ubuntu studio and the other things.
tweaking the kernel for real time operations is fun.
i mean - its just NOWHERE NEAR. NOWHERE NEAR.
i *have* to use windows or OSX for my music - even though i totally dont want to.

nowhere near in terms of plugin support or much support at all dev wise.
and i can see why people like the devs ive spoken to dont want to write for it - too many distros with too many little idiosyncrasies - too many idiots who dont know linux *trying* to use it but flailing and causing said devs craploads more support time etc. its just more pain than its worth.

but after hearing of steinbergs HUGE clusterfuck of a VST standard - one wishes someone would just come along and fix all this broken crap for good - like with an open plugin standard for example - cross platform etc.

[jeffh]

Thanks guys

In all fairness though, it's not written completely in Python. The GUI of PyDAW is 100% Python2.7 and PyQt4, but the audio path stuff and the plugins are written C for obvious performance reasons.

Horses for courses and such, I was well aware that Python wasn't fast enough for the audio path stuff, but it's great for anything that doesn't require extreme performance, I was able to whip up a pretty complex UI out of it in no time, PyDAW is < 6 months old, believe it or not. For a fine example of how to fail epicly by writing the entire DAW in pure Python, see the Jokosher project

[glokraw]

Someone posted here awhile back, that timemachine was buggy,
and abandoned...that might be a good app to revitalize, I use it
every week, never had a bug show up, but it sure is handy.
Cheers

I also implicated that you should use jack_capture instead, since
it doesn't have any known bugs, is actively developed, is simpler
to use, and can do everything timemachine can, and a lot more. jack_capture
is not a newcomer either, if you are afraid of that, it's
almost as old as timemachine, and it's included with all
the big linux distros.

To run jack_capture in "timemachine mode", use the -tm switch.

Thanks for the detailed reminder. Got it installed now,
and will put it to use. That's an excellent options file you included!
Cheers