KVR Audio

allofdrab · Post by **allofdrab** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:49 am

secretkillerofnames wrote:
allofdrab wrote: Huh, interesting. I'm using a 32bit MacBook Air, Mountain Lion with no missing plugins. Likely worth bringing up your issue in the Bidule forum. Are you using the latest version of Bidule? There was a new version released December 17. Also, any releases after the August 24, 2012 release have the 32bit and 64bit in the same file.
Yeah i'm using the latest versions and have tried them on both Mountain Lion and Snow Leopard. Same deal but only with Renoise. Can I ask what version of Renoise you are using?

2.8.1

allofdrab · Post by **allofdrab** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:57 am

cron wrote:Have you tried Usine?

The OP asked for a Mac OSX plugin. Bidule can do extensive modulating as well, but yah Usine is also cool. Windows only though; at the moment.

secretkillerofnames · Post by **secretkillerofnames** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:05 am

allofdrab wrote:
cron wrote:Have you tried Usine?
The OP asked for a Mac OSX plugin. Bidule can do extensive modulating as well, but yah Usine is also cool. Windows only though; at the moment.

Usine Hollyhock looks great but I'm waiting for an actual OSX demo before I go there.

allofdrab are you running the 32 or 64 bit Renoise 2.8.1?

cron · Post by **cron** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:06 am

allofdrab wrote:
cron wrote:Have you tried Usine?
The OP asked for a Mac OSX plugin. Bidule can do extensive modulating as well, but yah Usine is also cool. Windows only though; at the moment.

Ahh, had it in my head that it was cross-platform. The new version, Usine Hollyhock, is in public beta at the moment and supports OSX apparently. Maybe one to keep an eye on over the next few months.

I ought to explore Bidule. Had a crack at it something like 10 years ago and just wasn't really ready for it to be honest. I'm off to download the demo...

allofdrab · Post by **allofdrab** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:13 am

secretkillerofnames wrote:
allofdrab wrote:
cron wrote:Have you tried Usine?
The OP asked for a Mac OSX plugin. Bidule can do extensive modulating as well, but yah Usine is also cool. Windows only though; at the moment.
Usine Hollyhock looks great but I'm waiting for an actual OSX demo before I go there.

allofdrab are you running the 32 or 64 bit Renoise 2.8.1?

I'm running the 32Bit.

Yah, the OP may want to consider hanging on for Hollyhock, but it'll be considerably more expensive than Bidule, and there doesn't appear to be any mention of VST or AU plugin versions.

secretkillerofnames · Post by **secretkillerofnames** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:15 am

cron wrote:
The new version, Usine Hollyhock, is in public beta at the moment and supports OSX apparently.

Not PUBLIC and not even in BETA yet. But apparently soon.
It is definately something to keep an eye on but it seems like quite a serious DAW - like MuLab on steroids. It's not a plugin.
I've seen no further mentions about whether the OSX beta is coming out at the same time as the Win beta.

cron · Post by **cron** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:23 am

secretkillerofnames wrote:
cron wrote:
The new version, Usine Hollyhock, is in public beta at the moment and supports OSX apparently.
Not PUBLIC and not even in BETA yet. But apparently soon.
It is definately something to keep an eye on but it seems like quite a serious DAW - like MuLab on steroids. It's not a plugin.
I've seen no further mentions about whether the OSX beta is coming out at the same time as the Win beta.

Thought it was open to Usine users at this stage. I'm not so hot on the fact checking this evening!

So many tools...

secretkillerofnames · Post by **secretkillerofnames** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:27 am

cron wrote:
Thought it was open to Usine users at this stage. I'm not so hot on the fact checking this evening!

So many tools...

You are at least stimulating debate!

From what I gather from the forum it is promised "very soon". I do think calling it a "public" beta is a stretch since you need to be a paid up platinum member to get access to it but I certainly hope it is every thing it is selling itself as and more.

bmrzycki · Post by **bmrzycki** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:50 am

Although it doesn't use drawings of wires check out the routing capabilities of Reaper. It can do some seriously interesting things with both audio and midi routing to build complex FX chains.

secretkillerofnames · Post by **secretkillerofnames** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 6:54 am

Actually it seems I may be wrong... Usine does appear to have a VST version. But yeah... not Mac compatible yet.

allofdrab · Post by **allofdrab** » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:55 pm

Hey revo;
not exactly what you were asking for, but I thought it potentially worth mentioning that the plugin version of SonicBirth can be used to host and chain up AudioUnit instruments and effects within it in interesting ways and seems to behave well in Renoise. It's free; which is nice, but there are drawbacks. One is that I haven't figured out a way to automate AU plugins being hosted in it with Renoise. I can do it using SonicBirth's built in envelopes, oscillators, or a custom step sequencer though. Aswell, it doesn't appear to send MIDI out, and it can't load VST plugins. This all said, it IS free, and if you're a little hesitant to spend money on, say; Bidule; you may want to mess around with it. The available plugin version of SonicBirth ISN'T particularly mature (though there is a new version being developed), and it may not be as elegant as you'd like (though it does have some cool features), but it may fill the gap till you're ready to fork over some dough for a more robust plugin like Bidule (my recommendation), or Mux (when the OSX version comes out).

http://sonicbirth.sourceforge.net/

MisterPickle · Post by **MisterPickle** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:06 am

An interesting thread. I've been having fun with Audulus over the past few days and got to wondering what else is out there in that general category of ... dataflow audio synthesis? I'd like to decide upon one of these and devote my (limited) time to learning it and using it. Ideally it'd be something that will let me build "instruments" as well as do "algorithmic composition".

Usine and Bidule look really interesting. Any thoughts on Audiomulch, Max/MSP, or Pure Data? Pure Data looks ... awfully hard-core.

Thanks,

Mr P

tweetor_eator · Post by **tweetor_eator** » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:47 am

i think pure data was like an open source max thing and seeing as that is now abelton, you might as well go there if youre going down that route. being as ableton has a bunch of routing stuff as well it could be pretty flexible.

personally i use plogue bidule and have done for years, i like it over max in that its a bit easier and nicer to look at, but still has some very nias modulation options and spectral stuff.

havent used usine or audulous - thanks for the tips!

secretkillerofnames · Post by **secretkillerofnames** » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:46 am

MisterPickle wrote:An interesting thread. I've been having fun with Audulus over the past few days and got to wondering what else is out there in that general category of ... dataflow audio synthesis? I'd like to decide upon one of these and devote my (limited) time to learning it and using it. Ideally it'd be something that will let me build "instruments" as well as do "algorithmic composition".

Usine and Bidule look really interesting. Any thoughts on Audiomulch, Max/MSP, or Pure Data? Pure Data looks ... awfully hard-core.

Thanks,

Mr P

So you want algorithmic composition and building instruments...

Audiomulch is a great live tool and a great place to start but does not feature algorithmic tools. Works best with a plugin collection that you can patch together. Metasurface is its key feature

Bidule is similar to Mulch but adds a lot more components. Technically you could build your own instruments with Bidule but it's strengths are more with flexible routing and algorithmic composition. Bidule lets you host plugins and can run as a plugin also.

Reaktor gives you both the ability for algorithmic composition plus great instrument building features. Difficulty starts at a level slightly easier than Max but goes pretty deep. I'm finding it to be my preferred synth building tool at the moment. Reaktor doesn't let you host plugins though. It can run as a plugin as well as standalone.

Max 6 is a big step up over earlier version w/regard to usability. The help system now is really useful and makes it much easier to use BUT you do have to know what you are doing before you start. Max is less like the lego-blocks of Reaktor and more like a visual computer programming language. It will let you do both of the things you ask for. It runs plugins and has a wrapper called Max For Live that works in Ableton Live.

Usine seems like it might be a nice middle ground between Audiomulch and Max/MSP. I've only been playing around with it for a couple of days though and i'd say I won't do much with it until the new version comes out. Looks like it allows for both of the things yr after.

If you have no money get PureData or SuperCollider. Prepare to spend a lot of time in forums.

revo11 · Post by **revo11** » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:59 am

One of my big UI hangups with bidule was the floating windows. After using Audiomulch and it's relatively elegant (at least by comparison) unified parameter panel that _feels_ like the control surface of an instrument, the floating windows for each contraption thing was just painful and uninspiring.

It's a shame the interface is off-putting because otherwise bidule is pretty close to what I'm looking for.

VSTs with modular routing