VSTs with modular routing

[allofdrab]

One of my big UI hangups with bidule was the floating windows. After using Audiomulch and it's relatively elegant (at least by comparison) unified parameter panel that _feels_ like the control surface of an instrument, the floating windows for each contraption thing was just painful and uninspiring.

It's a shame the interface is off-putting because otherwise bidule is pretty close to what I'm looking for.

I kind of feel the opposite to you. Even though AudioMulch's GUI has it's perks, I find it can be challenging to navigate. For starters; when I click on a contraption in the patch bay, it's GUI doesn't always open up in a way that fits into place with the other, already opened contraptions, and I end up having to move it around to put it into place; which can be a pain, because of the way AudioMulch is designed for dragging the contraptions around. Also, if I click on a VST or AudioUnit plugin in AudioMulch's patch bay, I often want the original GUI of the plugin to open, but instead AudioMulch's generic GUI opens, and then I have to select the plugin's GUI from that. It's one extra step, but it annoys me.

I actually really like taking advantage of Mac OSX's multiple desktops to organize Bidule interfaces and hosted plugin GUI's. In my opinion it makes the whole experience feel much more integrated and intuitive. It also; to quote you; makes it feel "like the control surface of an instrument". AudioMulch doesn't allow me to do this. Here's a quick example of what I mean:



The floating windows allow me to really customize my viewing experience, and to be honest, I think many of Bidule's GUI elements are quite nice. As well, when I open a GUI element and position it on screen; it re-opens where I last put it; even on specific desktops; making the experience of working with the multiple windows very user-friendly. In fact, Bidule has won me over; as far as the floating window concept is concerned. I even go so far as to make (and it's easy to do) my own floating index which I can open Bidule GUI's from by selecting corresponding buttons.



As well, Bidule has it's fantastic parameter linking window; which makes building things in it a freak'n breeze:



AND a very informative Media Pool window (now with waveform viewing); which makes dealing with large numbers of audio files super easy:



So, I guess it's accurate to say I really like Bidule's implementation of floating windows.

To sum up; I feel that Bidule takes greater advantage of the built in features of Mac OSX; allowing for a much smoother, organizable, navigation-friendly experience.

[secretkillerofnames]

Great post AllofDrab.

I've never seen those floating waveform and modulation curve windows before.

I have to agree with you - I prefer Bidule's floating windows to Audiomulch's split pane static stuff. Mulch has the Metasurface though which is pretty freakin brilliant!

][oyd

[allofdrab]

Great post AllofDrab.

I've never seen those floating waveform and modulation curve windows before.

I have to agree with you - I prefer Bidule's floating windows to Audiomulch's split pane static stuff. Mulch has the Metasurface though which is pretty freakin brilliant!

][oyd

Thanks
Well, I find Bidule really inspiring, so I was motivated to plug it.

That said; I know what you mean about the Metasurface. Thing is though; Bidule is the PERFECT (in my opinion) match for the Metasurface. I use the two together A LOT to control step sequencers and other devices I build in Bidule and the results can be surprising. I actually highly recommend experimenting with using the two together.

Here's an example of something I did related to what I mean by using the two together:

[wesleyt]

Here's an example of something I did related to what I mean by using the two together:

That is beautiful and impressive work. Well done.

[Ch00rD]

OP: have you checked out Numerology 3 Pro?

(I love Bidule too, btw...)

[allofdrab]

That is beautiful and impressive work. Well done.

Well thanks! I suspect it's a bit on the long side as a demo for some people, and it was sort of an improvised one-off that strays off key at times, but I had a lot of fun making it. Glad it resonates with you in some way!

Not to hijack the thread, but in the name of sharing; here's the production info for it if you or anyone is curious:

Instruments:

BallDroppings (provided the trigger that drove a sequencer made with Bidule)

Bidule (provided a means to make a custom sequencer which created MIDI notes for Chromaphone)

Chromaphone (Physically modelled synth that was the source of the sound heard)

AudioMulch (AudioMulch's Metasurface was used to transition between the sequencer settings and Chromaphone's various settings)

Audio Hijack Pro (used to hijack the sound from BallDroppings and host the WIDI Audio to MIDI plugin which essentially turned BallDroppings into a MIDI controller. The MIDI was sent to Bidule and ran the note sequencer previously mentioned)

WIDI Audio to MIDI VST plugin (another star of the show)

Eos (reverb plugin - hosted by AudioMulch - which created a lovely - imo - spaciousness for Chromaphone)

ScreenFlow (screen and audio capture software used to make this video)

Safari (browser used to run BallDroppings)

[deastman]

That is beautiful and impressive work. Well done.

Well thanks! I suspect it's a bit on the long side as a demo for some people, and it was sort of an improvised one-off that strays off key at times, but I had a lot of fun making it. Glad it resonates with you in some way!

Not to hijack the thread, but in the name of sharing; here's the production info for it if you or anyone is curious:

Instruments:

BallDroppings (provided the trigger that drove a sequencer made with Bidule)

Bidule (provided a means to make a custom sequencer which created MIDI notes for Chromaphone)

Chromaphone (Physically modelled synth that was the source of the sound heard)

AudioMulch (AudioMulch's Metasurface was used to transition between the sequencer settings and Chromaphone's various settings)

Audio Hijack Pro (used to hijack the sound from BallDroppings and host the WIDI Audio to MIDI plugin which essentially turned BallDroppings into a MIDI controller. The MIDI was sent to Bidule and ran the note sequencer previously mentioned)

WIDI Audio to MIDI VST plugin (another star of the show)

Eos (reverb plugin - hosted by AudioMulch - which created a lovely - imo - spaciousness for Chromaphone)

ScreenFlow (screen and audio capture software used to make this video)

Safari (browser used to run BallDroppings)

This is brilliant! I really need to pick up Bidule one of these days...

[secretkillerofnames]

So Ball Droppings is a JavaScript thing?

Made something vaguely similar once in Processing.

Very nice by the way.

[revo11]

Very cool responses. I respect the difference of opinion.

Some reasons I'm not a huge fan of floating windows:
- Modeless interfaces have distinct advantages. I don't use tracktion, but one of the developers makes a much stronger case for them than I ever could:

#!

- I find the focus switching between windows distracting. Rather than your eyes getting accustomed to the surface in front of you, the mapping between screen position and controls is unstable. Keeping track of what windows are open and what's in focus is more state for the brain to keep track of.

On the other hand, as you say, with multiple monitors you can get around this somewhat by having a second or 3rd monitor as the "controls" screen. I'm on the road a lot though and often don't have that luxury.

The control panels in plogue are usable, but I think few people would find them aesthetically beautiful. There's way too much text in some of the control panels, and those little arrows aren't exactly inviting. To be honest, I think Audiomulch also took a step backwards in this regard between v1.0 and v2.0 when it ditched the clean flat geometries of 1.0 in favor of the skeumorphic-lite theme in v2.0.

I get the argument that, optimizing a panel layout surface with colliding objects takes more steps than optimizing a layout with overlapping objects (you can get from layout A to layout B in fewer steps if things are allowed to stack). But to me, it's not worth it in terms of expanding the parameter space of the layout manipulation - there are way more allowable+unusable layout configurations when control panels can stack.

I don't think either of us is going to convince each other, but this is an interesting discussion. I wish plogue/Ross would jump in with some insight regarding their design decisions. The comparison is a actually a bit of a tangent since audiomulch isn't even available as a vst, but oh well. I might just buy a bidule license anyway, in spite of my complaints