Velocity sens of black/white keys should be (almost) the same. No? Not a design flaw?

[icontakt]

Please strike your keyboard's black and white keys individually with the same force and check the velocity values. How different are they between black and white?

I very recently discovered what I consider a serious flaw in my MIDI keyboard Roland A-800PRO. When I was using a hardware synth Roland XP-50, the black and white keys had almost the same velocity sensitivity. For example, if I stroke slightly hard, the white key would show velocity value of 120, while the black key showed 121. I consider 1 or 2 value difference 'normal'.

Now, A-800PRO is different. If I strike the white key a bit hard, the value easily reaches 127, whereas I have to strike the black key much harder to see 127 (if not it will show 119 most of the time).

So I contacted Roland tech support. They told me that a value difference of 10 or so is within their 'acceptable range,' and NOT a design flaw.

What do you experienced keyboard users think? Is the noticeable velocity difference between the white/black keys common in many keyboards? Does it not negatively affect your MIDI recording?

I like everything else about A-800PRO, so I'm really shocked and disappointed.

Your opinions, suggestions, etc. will be much appreciated.

Thanks

[icontakt]

You don't have this problem or you don't mind the difference?

[BertKoor]

My very cheap and old midi keyboard definitely has this problem! A friend of mine who is a professional piano & keyboard player noticed it instantly... by ear, without peeking what the velocity values actually are.
I really don't give a damn, since I mainly play guitar

So chances are that Roland nowadays are saving on the keybeds. It sounds like yours is outside the acceptable discrepancy range. Can you take it back under warranty?

[SJ_Digriz]

My guess is that they care about that on their $4k workstation, but probably don't give a crap on their $500 kitchen sink one. You're probably lucky the keys pop back up when you press them down.

[icontakt]

My guess is that they care about that on their $4k workstation, but probably don't give a crap on their $500 kitchen sink one.

Hmm....but below is what they say on their product page (they care about all these but not about the difference between black and white?)

When you perform with the A-800PRO, you're tapping into the benefits of over 30 years of Roland keyboard development. A superior key mechanism provides aftertouch and and increased sensitivity for a wide range of expressive dynamics in your performance. Rounded key assemblies offer responsive reaction to your touch and more comfortable glissando. Plus, enhancements have been made to eliminate vertical shake and reduce the already low mechanical noise on key strokes. And with selectable Velocity curves you can fine tune the A-800PRO to match your playing style. No matter what your skill level, you'll appreciate the feel of a quality instrument when you play the A-800PRO.
http://www.rolandus.com/products/detail ... /features/

The Velocity curves described above cannot be set separately for black and white keys, of course.

[Jafo]

The Velocity curves described above cannot be set separately for black and white keys, of course.

Learning such touch response is part of keyboard education. Much like walking to school uphill in snowdrifts -- both ways. And we liked it that way!

Actually, what I meant to say was "Cripes, I wish I'd that ability when I was taking piano lessons..."

[meldavid]

It'll make your playing seem more expressive. Better than all your notes being at almost exactly the same velocity value. So just assume your keyboard is more 'analog'.

[lfm]

You can make midi fx plugins compensate for that. It's possible to make every black key to get +10(or whatever) on velocity, in realtime, as you play.

In Reaper you have these JS plugins that you can program yourself. Start out by modifying some existing, or there might be one that is shared on the community that is close to what you need as well. And some are very helpful and do stuff you ask for - and this one is real easy to do.

Just make a midi key table (127 long) and the black keys position have an entry(nonzero)and in the usuall loop reading and outputtng keys you check each incoming.

And just make a slider/fader to tell which amount you want to add to velocity.

But if not running Reaper have look at what Pez(I think his nickname is) do at his forum here at KVR. He made plenty useful midi VST FX plugins.

Some existing Midi FX that exist:
http://www.midiplugins.com

[icontakt]

Thank you all for your views and suggestions.

After my last post, I checked the velocity sens once again and found that when I strike a bit softer (around 100-116), the black and white keys show almost the same velocity values. So the problem area seems to be between 116 and 127 (especially above 120).

But, fortunately, values in this area don't very frequently appear in most of my keyboard takes (e.g. organ, electric piano), so it may not be a serious problem unless I record hard synth stub or lead synth (neither has many velocity layers so maybe not a problem). As for non-keyboard instruments like drums, bass, strings and brass, I don't seem to mind about velocity very much since I can edit them freely without feeling guilty.

Still, I'm going to try the midi fx plugins lfm suggested (lfm thank you very much for the info and the link!). Although I don't use Reaper (I use Sonar and Studio One), I once or twice tried free ReaPlugs and remember they included JS plugins. So I'll try them again and maybe add +3 or so velocity to the black keys if necessary.

Next time I buy a MIDI keyboard or synth, it's highly likely that I contact the manufacturer first and ask about their acceptable velocity discrepancy range.

Thanks again.