KVR Audio

RWA · Post by **RWA** » Thu May 06, 2004 9:39 pm

I'm switching from acoustic drums to e-drums.
Bloody hell.... it's a pretty big decision. The thing is... so far I havn't been using my drums a lot on my tracks because recording them is a bitch. Let's face it; you need a room with great acoustics and a battery of decent drummics to get the job done.

Anyway, my question is this:
is it possible to trigger vsti's with a e-kit? Since it's midi and all I figure it should be possible to trigger a vst-drummodule with an e-kit instead of a midikeyboard. But since this part of PC-recording is pretty new to me and the fact that I'm a drummer....
well... you get the picture.

Any e-drummers out there that can clear this up for me?

Holy crap! I'm selling my Tama starclassic performer kit with Paiste line cymbals....

GrooveMonkee · Post by **GrooveMonkee** » Sat May 08, 2004 1:19 am

Yes, BFD by FXpansion. It is unbelievable!!

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Sat May 08, 2004 9:44 am

Hi RWA ,

I just built by own midi drumkit >>>

I started a thread here with info how it was built >>
http://www.kvr-vst.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=41812

Do you know there is a simple way to set up your existing acoustic drum kit to trigger VST's

Here is how

You will need one of these circuits from Tom Scarff
>> http://tomscarff.tripod.com/8way_drm2/8way_drm2_1.htm

or one of the drum machines that accept pad inputs
and has midi out
and some piezo electric trancducers >>>
http://www.maplin.co.uk/products/module ... uleno=3202

connect the transducers to the circuit (or drum machine ) gaffer tape the transducers to your drum heads , connect the midi out to your computer and
you are away

From an SOS article

GEORGE BOURNE reveals a cheap and easy project for converting a drum kit to trigger sounds over MIDI.

After having used a drum machine for some time in live performance, I began to look for a way to use my drum kit on stage in conjunction with my drum machine sounds. I eventually settled on an Akai ME35T Audio/MIDI Trigger unit with commercially available 'bugs' so that I could trigger the drum machine sounds from my own kit both live and in the studio.

Around this time, I bought a copy of Recording Musician [now incorporated with SOS] and found myself reading an article entitled 'Beat the System', which described a DIY drum pad system constructed using inexpensive transducers available from the Maplin catalogue. Using the clear instructions provided, I was able to knock together a triangular three-pad unit to use up the remaining three inputs on my ME35T. However, I soon discovered that my new cheapy triggers at 28p each were also more sensitive to velocity, easier to control and not so susceptible to double or missed triggers as the commercial triggers, which had cost me £18 each! Another problem with the commercial units -- which fix to the outside of the drum heads -- was that wires had to be run over the drum rims to the attached sockets, which made them rather susceptible to damage.

My answer was to use the Maplin piezo transducers on the whole kit, mounting them inside the drums by sticking them to the underside of the drum heads and wiring them to sockets fixed through the drum shell. My shopping list from Maplin included a generous number of spares and was as follows:

• 10 piezo transducers, 27mm diameter, part number QY13P.

• 10 rubber discs, 27mm diameter, part number QY16S.

• 10 open jack sockets, part number HF91Y.

The total charge, including VAT and delivery, came to less than £10!

Fixing the transducers was accomplished as follows:

1. Remove the drum head and hoop.

2. Drill the shell with a 9.5mm hole around 50mm from the top of the shell.

3. Fit the jack socket to this hole.

4. Solder the transducer leads to the jack socket -- red tip, black sleeve.

5. Press the transducer onto the adhesive side of the rubber disk, then, using double-sided sticky tape, fix the rubber disc to the underside of the drum head (as you refit it) about 40mm from the edge.

The only problem I encountered is that the leads are not very well soldered to the transducer and the vibration can cause them to come loose. A blob of silicone rubber over the joint cures this, and it may help to resolder the leads. Figure 1 shows how the triggers are fitted.

Some form of MIDI converter is required to convert the trigger output into MIDI trigger data but the system works perfectly with my ME35T and with the Alesis D4 drum module. It should also work with most other drum machines or triggers fitted with audio inputs. Even using all 12 trigger inputs on the D4, the cost is still very low, the only extras required being jack leads to connect the transducers. For live use it helps to colour code the leads with coloured tape or use Maplin's coloured jack plugs, otherwise it's easy to get the leads mixed up. In the studio this can be remedied, but when you're playing live, it might be too late by the time you realise that your snare drum is triggering a hi-hat sample!

The ability to mix both electronic and acoustic drum sounds both live and in the studio opens up interesting new possibilities, while the ability to trigger the sounds from real drums removes the restriction of having to play along to click tracks.

>> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1994_ar ... ggers.html

RWA · Post by **RWA** » Sun May 09, 2004 5:37 am

Wow, thanks for the extented info.
Ofcourse the concept of triggering isn't new....

I'm going fully electric anyway because that way I can have a drumkit in the house right next to my PC (instead of my rehearsalroom in the shed).

What I'm really intrested in is if it's possible to get the notes you play displayed as midinotes (in the drumeditor). So that the midi-info from the drummodule gets "recorded" in (in my case) cubase.
I guess it's possible because the info from the module is midi and not much different from midi-info comming from a midikeyboard.

Most drummodules have an internal sequencer that works the same as any midisequencer to my knowledge...

Anyway, do I make any sence?!

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Sun May 09, 2004 8:02 am

Hi RWA ,

What I'm really intrested in is if it's possible to get the notes you play displayed as midinotes (in the drumeditor). So that the midi-info from the drummodule gets "recorded" in (in my case) cubase.
I guess it's possible because the info from the module is midi and not much different from midi-info comming from a midikeyboard.

No problem

.........
Every hit will be recorded and all the notes will be
displayed in the drum editor or any other Cubase editor you choose to view them in

You may need to configure yourself a Cubase drum map
though

RWA · Post by **RWA** » Sun May 09, 2004 2:34 pm

No problem .........
Every hit will be recorded and all the notes will be
displayed in the drum editor or any other Cubase editor you choose to view them in

Excellent!

btw, nice job on the homemade drumkit Raven!

I'm looking at a Roland TD-6 or Yamaha DT-express III myself. Dunno yet.

Polychrome · Post by **Polychrome** » Mon May 10, 2004 12:53 am

You can easily trigger and play ANYTHING with an e-kit. You can set some pads up to trigger drum hits, others up to toggle on and off entire music loops or sections, trigger one bar phrases of several instruments each doing there own thing, etc.

Any midi controller can trigger all the above, and much more, depending on the hardware/software setup. Check into using Ableton's live. You can set up a Live session to function as an e-kit patch, which opens up all sorts of wild options.

Furthermore, you can build a pretty impressive collection of instruments, audio and midi fx processors, etc, for free. So budget is not a huge issue even, although of course there is a reason quality commercial products make money by being very good at there jobs (sometimes).

I'm not sure if people are making e-drum kits that interface with computers with usb cables instead of midi, but anytime I get a controller I try and use usb instead of actual midi cables. Keeps things simpler.

Toker · Post by **Toker** » Mon May 10, 2004 1:32 am

I'm not sure if people are making e-drum kits that interface with computers with usb cables instead of midi, but anytime I get a controller I try and use usb instead of actual midi cables. Keeps things simpler.

Anyone try this fingerpad?

http://www.kellyindustries.com/keyboard ... mpd16.html

http://www.tweakheadz.com/review_of_the_akai_mpd16.htm

I got one on order......can't wait

T

Polychrome · Post by **Polychrome** » Mon May 10, 2004 1:47 am

Yeah, I bought one of those finger pads a few months ago (I'm researching all sorts of controllers).

I predict that you will be quite happy with it, although I wish it had some sort of LCD screen. It's nice and ergonomic, and thus fun, and thus helpfull. Play around with how you place it, by putting it on a pillow on your lap, for example.

It's also a great example of a controller with a single usb cable, drawing power from the usb cable. Simple, elegant plug-and-play. Akai did a good job

RWA · Post by **RWA** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 1:54 pm

Well, I've chosen the Roland TD-6KV. Set up and hooked up:

And midicontrol works excellent. First record the midinotes and edit all you want before recording the audio. Ofcourse this concept is as old as midi itself... for me it pretty new as a drummer.

KoenTanghe · Post by **KoenTanghe** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 2:44 pm

And if you have old audio drum tracks that you would like to convert to MIDI tracks, you could also use a plugin like Drumagog, JTrig or my KTDrumTrigger.
But in your case (you're a drummer yourself and you have an e-drum kit), you'll probably be better off by playing them again on your bright new machinery

Anyway, just as a matter of information...

RWA · Post by **RWA** » Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:28 pm

KoenTanghe wrote:And if you have old audio drum tracks that you would like to convert to MIDI tracks, you could also use a plugin like Drumagog, JTrig or my KTDrumTrigger.
But in your case (you're a drummer yourself and you have an e-drum kit), you'll probably be better off by playing them again on your bright new machinery
Anyway, just as a matter of information...

Thanks. Didn't know that.

But yeah... I can play my own tracks.

But that doesn't mean I skip the rest. It's great to have this + loops + drummachines. Drumming along with a loops can give wonderfull results. I must say the TD6-module has nothing but top notch sounds. I've own an SPD20 before but this thing blows my mind.

e-drums and midicontrol