Piano chord voicing

[xtp]

Its been about 3 years since I have done anything in Cubase so I set myself up a small project to get back in to the swing of it.

I just recorded a short chord sequence on guitar then set up a midi piano track and step recorded/mouse edited the chords so they were identical to my recorded guitar.

I have done a screen dump of the chord voicings I used, my question is -

[remember I am a guitarist not a pianist]

I assume the chords have to be played 2 handed on piano, how do you decide which hand plays which notes, is it a style thing, or is there some formality behind the choice, or would you vary it depending on what comes next -

On guitar these voicings are relatively easy to play, but on piano they are [or so it would seem to me] rather a stretch.

[NOTE : Bb13 has no 5th]

[cruisy18]

Left hand for lowest note, or two lowest notes, right hand for the rest.

[FreqStatus]

^^ What he said, but more specifically, play the bass note, which is often the root note, but not always. Experiment with it! Of course it's the lowest note because that's the way the piano is setup, but if you're trying to decide which one to do (since the topic is "voicings" and not "which way is up on the piano?", haha, jk) then I assume that I just answered your question.


Btw, I didn't look at the sheet music because I'm lazy... and it's not necessary. There are really no rules in modern music, other than it should sound good to you.

[DefiantCatz70]

I've seen a lot of topics about Piano/Guitar chords and have to admit that when I'm using a synth Guitar sound, I prefer to use the voicing of the instrument, I'm trying to recreate.....So if I was playing a guitar voice of E m the notes would be E B E G B E, if I was using the piano chord it would be E G B with the right hand and with the left hand I would use a E or maybe a E octave, to make the sound more fuller.

These chords that are played on Guitar or Piano are really the same chords, an A Major is an A Major, but for me, especially creating a strumming action, I need the correct voicing.
If I'm playing a piano piece based on a guitar tune, then I will play it in it's piano voicing.

There are plenty of talented people on this thread, that will know more than me about proper chord voicing, this is just what I've studied from various websites.

[ruslan.st]

Maybe something like this:

[blueman]

I assume the chords have to be played 2 handed on piano, how do you decide which hand plays which notes, is it a style thing, or is there some formality behind the choice, or would you vary it depending on what comes next -

Coming from a guitarist's perspective, this is tricky business (I'm in the same boat). At first pass, I typically overplay the piano part and that's problematic for both song and mix. My experience has taught me that the less complex I treat it the more effective it is in the arrangement, and the easier it is to mix later. Contrast is king here! If the guitar is the primary (featured) instrument then the piano should be more sparse, in a supportive role.

As a rule, the left hand covers the root (bass) note and the octave above that; that's safe territory anyway. The right hand can pick up the 3rd interval and any "color" notes such as the 9th, 11th, etc. Or, you can play a really simple counter-melody or supportive part with the right hand. Similarly, you could play chord stabs (altering the rhythm a bit, for interest) or diads with any combination of chord tones. Typically, you won't need the 5th interval (especially, if it's already featured in the guitar part). Also, try dropping the left hand altogether, and just allow the bass guitar (or bass synth/keys) to hold down the low end.

I find it least effective (i.e. boring) to play the exact same part and chords on piano as guitar. Let them compliment and augment one another appropriately. Also, if you are rhythmically intricate (i.e. busy) with one, be simple with the other (e.g. stick to whole or half notes). Both parts doing "interesting" rhythms tends to get too busy (for me at least).

HTH
Rich

[blueman]

One more thing...

I eventually had to learn, as guitarist approaching piano, the importance of learning inversions for chord voicings. This enables us to keep our hands closer together and more manageable for performance. It will usually sound more fluid, natural and piano-like (if such a concept exists) if you make extensive use of chords inversions in your progressions. If your hands are jumping all over the piano like we guitarists do with barre-chords it can get choppy fast! So, try to find ways to play your chord progression whilst keeping your hands fairly close together when you make a chord change. It's a big adjustment for guitar players who are used to using the root to locate chords. I'm still working on this one

[Bobbotov]

One more thing...

I eventually had to learn, as guitarist approaching piano, the importance of learning inversions for chord voicings. This enables us to keep our hands closer together and more manageable for performance.

Listen to Bill Evans. He was a master at chord voicing like this.

[DefiantCatz70]

Hi blueman, if someone is a guitarist and trying to figure out guitar chords to piano, would it be best for them to buy a piano book of chords or internet sites e.g the guitarist would be searching for a C Major chord, which on piano would be C E G (C Major Root Position) 1st inversion would be E G C and 2nd inversion G C E.

And with the left hand use the root note C for Bass.

Would this be the ideal way of doing this?


If you see a chord written like this G/F# it means:

Play a G chord (G B D) with your right hand and an F# note for the bass with your left hand.



I love using Power chords with the left hand (the root and 5th of the chord) for that rockier feel.

I love these tutorials by Chris Marx:

[Nystul]

I assume the chords have to be played 2 handed on piano, how do you decide which hand plays which notes, is it a style thing, or is there some formality behind the choice, or would you vary it depending on what comes next -

Coming from a guitarist's perspective, this is tricky business (I'm in the same boat). At first pass, I typically overplay the piano part and that's problematic for both song and mix. My experience has taught me that the less complex I treat it the more effective it is in the arrangement, and the easier it is to mix later. Contrast is king here! If the guitar is the primary (featured) instrument then the piano should be more sparse, in a supportive role.

As a rule, the left hand covers the root (bass) note and the octave above that; that's safe territory anyway. The right hand can pick up the 3rd interval and any "color" notes such as the 9th, 11th, etc. Or, you can play a really simple counter-melody or supportive part with the right hand. Similarly, you could play chord stabs (altering the rhythm a bit, for interest) or diads with any combination of chord tones. Typically, you won't need the 5th interval (especially, if it's already featured in the guitar part). Also, try dropping the left hand altogether, and just allow the bass guitar (or bass synth/keys) to hold down the low end.

I find it least effective (i.e. boring) to play the exact same part and chords on piano as guitar. Let them compliment and augment one another appropriately. Also, if you are rhythmically intricate (i.e. busy) with one, be simple with the other (e.g. stick to whole or half notes). Both parts doing "interesting" rhythms tends to get too busy (for me at least).

HTH
Rich

I think that is kind of the "trap" of the piano. Because the piano player could do it all. He can play the bass line, and the chords, and the melody, and whatever. But if you add in a guitar player or a bass player, now piano player needs to learn how to get out of the way. Especially if you have guitar and male singer and now the piano player wants to play chord in the tenor range. Maybe it's getting a little crowded down there. So even someone who is good solo piano player may not know what to do in some other circumstance.

[tapper mike]

Yes and no. It really depends on the keyboards tone and the rhythmic techique deployed. 5,6,7.8 and more players can perform well in a band if the songs are arranged properly. Properly doesn't always mean "comping" It means each player needs to occupy a certain space in the groove.

There are several ways to skin the proverbial cat when it comes to chord/melody, re harmonization when it comes to piano and guitar. There are schools or disciplines in it.

Overall it's easier for someone with a solid foundation in ensemble performance (playing in a band) to transition to soloist performer then the other was round.

As a soloist one is constantly occupied with filling up space whether it needs to be filled or not. It's great if you are playing as a soloist but it's not great when you study that method as a end all be all and try to apply it in a group setting. A lot of born soloist performers interfere with the music because they are too busy stepping on other musicians and not being able to read and react.

[DefiantCatz70]

I always love Nile Rodgers Rhythm playing on guitar, is there a way of translating that Rhythm section to piano, or any good videos or advice on this.....I would like to play it in real time and not have to program midi to make it sound real.

In the past I've split the keyboard with the same octave on both sides, so that I can get a fast Rhythm going, with one side having a different delay time.

[blueman]

I love these tutorials by Chris Marx:

Those are good videos, thanks for sharing! I've bought several piano chord books but the chords don't stick (for me) because they all switch up every time there's a key change. Alas, I end up using my ear or reverting to the same basic shapes I already know. I'm baffled by how pianists remember all of these different shapes for every key

As for the bass notes...be careful with slash chords! Make sure, if you are playing an interval other than the root in the bass, that the other bass instruments are playing that same interval. Otherwise, it will turn into mud and sludge pretty quick. For the extreme low-end, I don't have much luck using intervals; I prefer to play slash chords higher up the register, and keep the very bottom notes on the root; otherwise, it can get too weird and eclectic for me. I want that strong bottom reinforcing the chord changes and locking up nicely with the kick and other bass instruments. I don't need too much melody or harmony goin' on down there (something your video reference points out nicely ).

As for 5th intervals, if you are not strongly emphasizing major or minor (being purposefully ambiguous), then 5ths are always safe as "power chords"; this is true of "sus" chords (2nds, 4ths, etc.) as well. If you have strong fifths in the bass of the piano, try leaving them out on the guitar part and playing just 3rd intervals (diads) instead. You might like the result

[tapper mike]

The thing about guitar playing is the tehnique greatly affects the timbre/tonality. Where as a true piano can't achive that much variance. Synths changed the game.


One of the complaints I hear about those guitarists wanting to go midi-guitar is that they only have two hands. Where as keyboard players can play with one hand and tweak with the other guitarists usually need both hands on deck.

[DefiantCatz70]

On youtube I've seen a few videos with Real Guitar/Strat/LPC, which are made for playing keyboard and having the proper Guitar voicing, I prefer to just play the actual chords myself, but others might find it of some use.