Linux...anybody using it?

[StudioDave]

Hey Dave,

I'm not sure if you're already in review, post-review, or what not...

In media res, as we used to say in Ancient Rome, but I have no problem waiting to check out the new additions. I'm in a massive re-write of another article that needs finished first anyway.

A Windows-based friend who does electronic music in the nowadays sense took a look at a recent (but not current) version of PyDAW2, it looks like you're already addressing some of his concerns (mostly UI related, the graphic editing tools will make him happy).

Thanks for the note, it looks like development is shaping up very nicely.

Best,

dp

[sellyoursoul]

I haven't kept up with this thread. Is anyone running PyDAW on Debian testing at the moment?

[jeffh]

I haven't kept up with this thread. Is anyone running PyDAW on Debian testing at the moment?

I haven't tried... I doubt the Ubuntu packages I provided will work because they are compiled with newer versions of GCC and GLibC...

But, I see no reason why it couldn't work if compiled from the source code... If you were mostly interested in checking out the piano roll, I haven't released that yet, but I can announce back here when I do(tonight maybe?).

Otherwise, I do have Debian instructions on my download page, let me know if you run into any trouble with it...

[jeffh]

The new version with the piano roll is up... The piano roll is shockingly far along in functionality for being less than a week old(but for now it will be a little cramped on standard laptop screens)...

The audio sequencer works, but is a little more rudimentary in comparison. I'm going to try to move that a further along this week while my associate works on the visual automation envelopes, and with any luck this will all get released next weekend...

See pydaw.org for the release announcement and downloads page.

[pc999]

Pretty cool to see the addition of a basic piano roll.

Keep the good work!!!!!


Just 2 questions, if you dont mind...

After I close PyDaw I dont have sound in any other programs (youtube, media players...), I think it also happens with other DAWs but I never bothered with it. Anyway only by restarting the PC I can solve it (I opened(?) and quit jack just to be sure it isn't causing any problem). Any way of solving it?

And, I did add the program to my Ubuntu install by downloading the deb package, will it be updated automatically (like office and such things) or will I need to do anything in the future?

Thanks!


If you guys need some no programming help say it, if I can I will help.

[pljones]

And, I did add the program to my Ubuntu install by downloading the deb package, will it be updated automatically (like office and such things) or will I need to do anything in the future?

If you only got the .deb, like any other package installed the same way, you'll have to keep up to date manually.

[jeffh]

And, I did add the program to my Ubuntu install by downloading the deb package, will it be updated automatically (like office and such things) or will I need to do anything in the future?

If you only got the .deb, like any other package installed the same way, you'll have to keep up to date manually.

This is correct. I'm not so keen on forcing automatic updates on people, like from a PPA. Since PyDAW has a very fast rolling-release schedule (5 releases this month already, should have at least 6 releases before March), it's better if users pick-and-choose the updates to install, rather than having it look different every time the open it...

Pretty cool to see the addition of a basic piano roll.

Keep the good work!!!!!

Thanks I actually have marquee select and click+drag-to-draw-length working on my PC now, but I'm still working out a few quirks(which is why they didn't make it into this release). I'm also getting very close to having those automation envelopes working already...

After I close PyDaw I dont have sound in any other programs (youtube, media players...), I think it also happens with other DAWs but I never bothered with it. Anyway only by restarting the PC I can solve it (I opened(?) and quit jack just to be sure it isn't causing any problem). Any way of solving it?

Either you need to kill the "jackd" process (I've had to do it all the time), or in this case it sounds like a pulseaudio issue... I'm not sure how to go about fixing that, but surely Googling "pulseaudio [description of your problem]" probably leads to an easy fix...

This is exactly why I'm strongly considering killing support for Jack and going straight-ALSA at the next major release

If you guys need some no programming help say it, if I can I will help.

I guess you meant "non-programming help". If so, testing and feedback are valuable, sit down and write a full tune in PyDAW, and let me know what didn't work, and could've been better... (with the understanding that the first lines of code for PyDAW were being written less than 6 months ago, and that we are actively addressing the lack of certain features to be expected from such young software )

[glokraw]

There are some other linux processes that are not terminated
automatically, I know pppd sometimes stays running after closing
an internet session.

While killall jackd is a pretty simple remedy, carving out malformed
jackd and pulseaudio linux depencencies would be a great map
for other audio devs to follow (After their shrieking subsided )

The trend of devs lazily bloating everything
with layers of complexity, that will never get adequate testing,
frustrates the musicians creativity and productivity.

I myself would hope the Pydaw can keep optional connectivity to jackd,
while not requiring jackd as a dependency. The closer you can bring audio
production back to 0's and 1's the better.
Cheers

[glokraw]

http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-audi ... 89763.html

Links in the message are to 'Studio Dave' Philips articles for
'Linux Weekly News', 9 articles covering a linux example or two,
of sound creation tools, synthesizers, plugins, DAWs,
session management, sequencers, and a video app.
As usual, a fine blend of details, presented in a
useful overview.

For example, a windows user curious about CSound, can see the
linux version, some gui's, and the do further cross platform research.

May the trove be with you.

[jeffh]

I myself would hope the Pydaw can keep optional connectivity to jackd,
while not requiring jackd as a dependency.

A Linux DAW talking directly to ALSA is the equivalent of a Windows DAW talking directly to ASIO... It's just the right way to do it. Jack is a b_tch, plain and simple... At it's best, it's a solution for a problem that doesn't exist, and in practice it's just one more thing that adds latency, overhead, and often causes problems for people.

So PyDAWv3 will start up, ask you to select an ALSA device if you haven't already picked one, then create an appropriate number of input tracks mapped directly to your soundcard's inputs.

Now, this won't allow you to route audio internally within Linux, but why would you ever need to? Plugins are my specialty, Way-V is already in many important ways better than Zyn, etc.., and uses a fraction of the CPU... Once PyDAW is finished enough that I can go back to being a plugin developer instead of a DAW developer, it will quickly become the undisputed king of Linux synths, bet on it... Euphoria is already the only viable alternative to Kontakt, etc.. in Linux, and it's also going to be receiving a bunch of next-level features once PyDAW development calms down a little. Since PyDAW is already one of the few Linux DAWs that supports offline rendering to .wav, why would Jack even be needed?

In other news, me and my associate just finished those MIDI CC automation visual envelopes and some piano roll enhancements, next weekend's release should be a mind-blowing step forward from the version I released yesterday even... After the next release, we're going to focus on making sure that the current feature set is well polished and free of bugs, then the PyDAWv3 release cycle will begin..

[pljones]

Of course, a Windows DAW talking directly to ASIO does introduce its own set of limitations and that's one reason to avoid a similar model. Admittedly, a Windows DAW is itself usually highly complex and open, allowing connectivity with a myriad of plugins, including major studio tools like Kontakt. I'd suggest not cutting off JACK until you can support a fully fledged streaming sampler of similar power to Kontakt or Sforzando (preferably the latter with the streaming engine of the former... patents allowing). In addition, being able to connect to things like NINJAM for live jamming is another place JACK comes in handy - so unless you're planning to build that into PyDAW (as Reaper does with ReaNINJAM on Windows/Mac), it might be worth keeping your options open. Closed systems - whether open source or not - generally disadvantage the user.

[glokraw]

Now, this won't allow you to route audio internally within Linux, but why would you ever need to? Plugins are my specialty, Way-V is already in many important ways better than Zyn

I hope sound design is also a specialty. There are some people who create
most of their own sounds, and some who create most of their sounds
on just one or two instruments. But most don't have the needed blends of time, inclination, and skill, hence the existance of pro sound designers,
who fill the void with wonders.

'Needing to', do something is different than wanting to. I want to interconnect
windows .exe and .dll to linux software, in or out, without any
arbitrary limitiations. Removing jackd capability from pydaw? If that code is causing issues with developement or performance, fine, cut it loose,
but if it is benign, just leave it in place,
with a no-support clause in a readme.

Having a nice set of plugins, is half the battle, first impressions
being what they are. Making Ray-V and Way-V 16 part multi-timbral,
would allow musicians to easily layer sounds, reducing the need for soundsets.
Modulex, Euphoria, and a pair of multi-timbral synths, would be a solid
base to build on.
Cheers

[jeffh]

I hope sound design is also a specialty. There are some people who create
most of their own sounds, and some who create most of their sounds
on just one or two instruments. But most don't have the needed blends of time, inclination, and skill, hence the existance of pro sound designers,
who fill the void with wonders.

If there's something that my applications are lacking, then I should be fixing it. Not enabling goofy hack XYZ to enable people to compensate with something that can do it...

'Needing to', do something is different than wanting to. I want to interconnect
windows .exe and .dll

...and you've already failed... WINE has no more than a 50% success rate(ie: works perfectly) from my experience, and frankly it's never going to be higher than that. Like I said, the goal is for PyDAW to be the ultimate all-in-one, not to be perfectly interoperable with everybody else's bad ideas... Nearly every PyDAW issue being reported to me right now is a direct result of Jack being a PITA... I'm more concerned about fixing that Achille's Heel than being interoperable with Ardour.

Having a nice set of plugins, is half the battle, first impressions
being what they are. Making Ray-V and Way-V 16 part multi-timbral,
would allow musicians to easily layer sounds, reducing the need for soundsets.
Modulex, Euphoria, and a pair of multi-timbral synths, would be a solid
base to build on.
Cheers

Multitimbrality isn't on the roadmap yet because I have bigger fish to fry right now, but I'll be investigating it at some point...

[pc999]

I guess you meant "non-programming help". If so, testing and feedback are valuable, sit down and write a full tune in PyDAW, and let me know what didn't work, and could've been better... (with the understanding that the first lines of code for PyDAW were being written less than 6 months ago, and that we are actively addressing the lack of certain features to be expected from such young software )

Thanks!

And that is what I meant.

I will give you suggestions, but, like you said, at this time it seems silly to do such

[glokraw]

...and you've already failed... WINE has no more than a 50% success rate(ie: works perfectly) from my experience, and frankly it's never going to be higher than that. Like I said, the goal is for PyDAW to be the ultimate all-in-one, not to be perfectly interoperable with everybody else's bad ideas... Nearly every PyDAW issue being reported to me right now is a direct result of Jack being a PITA... I'm more concerned about fixing that Achille's Heel than being interoperable with Ardour.

I use wine and jackd every week, no problems, guitars, keyboards,
name-brand and freeware apps and plugins. I have not failed, and I don't
insist that my way is the hiway, I don't use Ardour, and am very
happy that 'some' apps are stable and productive in wine country.
Nobody I know ever expects more than 50% of windows apps
to run reliably....wait for it...................




ON WINDOWS!!!!

I aquired hardware known to work, wine versions known to work,
chose one of the two jackd versions, cancelled the update button,
and pressed the record button.

Ranting about how difficult that is, is absurd. Windows DAW users run the
exact same drill. Make it work, lock it down. Record.