Easy solution for drums/percussion

[Tridnod]

Had this chat the other day who is a drummer. I said that i made electronic music and he told me he made music only with percussion but never got around sequencing synths/samples. For me its the opposite. I have yet to find a way to sequence drums. I've tried two ways, using Ultrabeat and stylus. I found Stylus just another complicated software to learn and threw it out, tried Ultrabeat and sequence in logic but its kinda hard to tweak the sounds in that gui and since my knowledge about percussion from scratch is limited, its even harder to sequence the samples in Logic.

So, advice is needed on a good solution on how to easy get creative with percussion without going technical. Samples, synthesized, loopa, doesnt matter. Just want that groove in my productions.

[pljones]

Personally, I'd say "get a drummer" - but then, I'm a drummer who plays a MIDI kit for triggering acoustic drum samples to avoid overpowering people with a real drum kit. Sequencing natural sounding acoustic drums takes a lot of care. You'll probably need to spend some time learning how a drummer gets into the feel of a track. If you've got a MIDI triggering device of any sort, you can record yourself tapping away to a backing track to see how well you do. But it depends one what you're trying to get to. If you're doing electronic music, that may mean you want a machine-like feel to the drums, which is very different from what I'm suggesting.

[robogone]

Get some online MIDI loops and trigger your drums with them - check out groovemonkey.com and others.

[Tridnod]

Get some online MIDI loops and trigger your drums with them - check out groovemonkey.com and others.

Thats interesting. Also thought about using Apple-loops and use the ones i like in the tracks and the same time take a quick look at how the midi data looks and what fx is around. So i might learn something on how to work to get that groove. Its more then just the velocity.

[robogone]

Well if you get MIDI loops you can cut and paste them as you see fit to build a drum track and you can then experiment with various drums kits on top of that.

The thing I don't like about loops is that there is little you can do to edit them (other than laboriously chop them up and rearrange them).

[Nanakai]

Learning a bit around a drum kit is highly advised. Try this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Drum-Programming- ... sequencing

It was written in the 80's, but the techniques and concepts are applicable to today's DAW environment. This is probably the single best thing you can do.

I found this to be an excellent set of videos, but very technical:
http://www.groove3.com/str/drumming-explained.html

Still, it will take your drum parts to new creative heights, so at least put it on your "To-do" list.

If you haven't already, work on your basic rhythm chops. Get a feel for how time signatures work. It's a lot easier than you think. The first part of this book has some fun exercises:

http://www.amazon.com/COMPOSE-YOURSELF- ... e+yourself

[wehkah]

There is no other way. You have to learn the basics. I know it costs time and is sometimes annoying when you not got the results you like but from time to time you get better and then you have the skills.

I use BFD2, Kontakt, Battery, Live8/9 and a huge Library of different single Samples. For playing the sounds i use a MPD, my keyboard or a mic.

When you have skills it is a lot more easyer to being creative, you dont have to think about every single step before do it. You can let it flow becasue you know your tools and craft.

good luck!
T

[michael2]

i use ultrabeat sometimes, but if I have samples that I like, I think it's much easier in EXS24. load them in and use the piano roll; or play the part by hand and fix your mistakes afterwards. I also use elektroid, but I bought it on a whim because it was cheap. i would say that 99% of my drums I do in EXS. the stuff i use in ultrabeat is generally the kits that came with it that appeal to me.

you can drag and drop in ultrabeat as well if you want to put samples into it. but like you mentioned: that interface is daunting. one thing I would do for ease of programming in ultrabeat is to ignore the step sequencer and just use logics piano roll. you can still tweak the individual sounds in ultrabeat, and you can always use the hyper editor if you want to tweak hard on the individual hits.

there are some good youtube vids on ultrabeat. i need to get better with it. the stuff I do is passable, but I have friends that use it and blow me away.

to learn how to compose the parts, maybe take a midi loop and deconstruct it. mute everything but the hats and see what they're doing. do the same with the other elements. then on another track, see if you can duplicate that midi loop. maybe not the sounds, but the parts. after you do that a few times, you'll start to hear things differently and it will come more naturally. it's like learning to play guitar or piano, you get a little better each time you do it.

[ZenPunkHippy]

Some old Sound on Sound articles about programming realistic MIDI drums:

Part 1:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_ar ... lmidi.html

Part 2:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_ar ... sequ2.html

20 tips:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct99/a ... 20tips.htm

More recent article here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep10/a ... m-prog.htm
Audio demos:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep10/a ... gaudio.htm

My 2 cents:

Get a controller like Maschine and practice playing beats live. It doesn't take long to get the basics down, the small timing and velocity variations will add some feel to your loops. Some tidying up may be necessary but you'll have a good human edge.

Also get a microphone and a box of "kids" percussion toys. Record live shakers + other toys, again to add a little unique and human element to your percussion.

Peace,
Andy.