KVR Audio

Great Galactic Ghoul · Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:30 am

Is anyone certain that this Bitwig thing actually exists? Personally, I'm beginning to think it's like Santa Claus or demons or SampleTank 3: Someone made some shit up in order to elicit specific and predictable responses from somebody else.

And why are there no cats in this thread?

(Everyone relax. I'm merely working on my comedy routine here.)

decalogue · Post by **decalogue** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:35 am

Since Bitwig 1.0 has been available for beta testers since almost a year, there surely must be at least one beta tester on the planet external to the Bitwigs themselves who can verify that he/she is actually beta testing an actual existing software, right?

decalogue · Post by **decalogue** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:53 am

My only advice to the Bitwigs is this: release a public beta ASAP that anybody can download.

Or: Release at least a recorded video where some independent press member tries out Bitwig in its current state.

lnikj · Post by **lnikj** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:54 am

The first rule of Fight Club ...

CPCompany · Post by **CPCompany** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:55 am

decalogue wrote:Since Bitwig 1.0 has been available for beta testers since almost a year, there surely must be at least one beta tester on the planet external to the Bitwigs themselves who can verify that he/she is actually beta testing an actual existing software, right?

I saw a review of the beta a few months ago and they said it was actually not even truly in the beta stage. I think at the time the use of external plug ins hadn;t been implemented.

jeffh · Post by **jeffh** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:20 pm

vastarray wrote: Forget Linux, they don't even have interface drivers.

Wrong...

First, there might just be a **few** supported audio interfaces, see:

http://alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Main

standalone wrote: How quaint. The reason way there are no drivers or malware for Linux is the same, nobody cares for it. You call developers greedy for ignoring Linux, I call them sensible.

Linux is as insecure as any other piece of software and only protects through obscurity: Coding malware for it is not profitable.

Linux has over 90% market share of web servers and super computers, and over 50% of smartphones. I think that would constitute a big enough target, literally the only stronghold Windows has left is desktops...

...and yet, the only "malware" for any of those billions of Linux devices is those social engineering smartphone apps that require the user to install something and acknowledge the permissions they are granting it, ie: the kind of stuff that you could never stop on any platform. Even microsoft.com has their Windows servers hiding behind Akamai's Linux servers, they hired another company so that they could avoid the shame of having to hire a bunch of Linux guys to secure their web operations.

tenshin111 · Post by **tenshin111** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:28 pm

kangul wrote:
vastarray wrote: Forget Linux, they don't even have interface drivers.
Hehe, who exactly don't have interface drivers? Let's get it straight: most hardware manufacturers are too greedy to invest their money into software development for non-mainstream OS'. But that's the problem with their greed, not with Linux.

It has nothing to do with greed. They are not charity - if they can't see a business case then they will not invest, simple as that.

tenshin111 · Post by **tenshin111** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:35 pm

jeffh wrote:
standalone wrote: How quaint. The reason way there are no drivers or malware for Linux is the same, nobody cares for it. You call developers greedy for ignoring Linux, I call them sensible.

Linux has over 90% market share of web servers and super computers, and over 50% of smartphones. I think that would constitute a big enough target, literally the only stronghold Windows has left is desktops...

So what? Web servers and super computers are just market niches.

And Android is not Linux. It uses bits of Linux on low-level layer but on top of that is Google's runtime environment that has nothing to do with Linux. And the libraries are mostly not compatible with Linux either as Android has its own customised C libraries for example.

Whether you want it or not, Linux is not a mainstream OS and will never be because of fragmentation and incompletness. Also, its free nature doesn't help either - no serious developer will ever be interested in an OS that promotes free and open software.

tenshin111 · Post by **tenshin111** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:37 pm

decalogue wrote:My only advice to the Bitwigs is this: release a public beta ASAP that anybody can download.

Or: Release at least a recorded video where some independent press member tries out Bitwig in its current state.

Or don't announce a product three years before it is actually ready to be released to the public

danbroad · Post by **danbroad** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:38 pm

I heard Bitwig were taking time off to work on Half Life 3 with Valve. All due out just before the Spectrasonics half price sale and the reissued Roland Juno.

jeffh · Post by **jeffh** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:43 pm

tenshin111 wrote: So what? Web servers and super computers are just market niches.

ROFL... Super computers, maybe... Web servers are no more of a "niche market" than desktop PCs are.. Have you ever wondered how all of those interwebz get to your PC?

tenshin111 wrote:And Android is not Linux. It uses bits of Linux on low-level layer but on top of that is Google's runtime environment that has nothing to do with Linux. And the libraries are mostly not compatible with Linux either as Android has its own customised C libraries for example.

Whether you want it or not, Linux is not a mainstream OS and will never be because of fragmentation and incompletness. Also, its free nature doesn't help either - no serious developer will ever be interested in an OS that promotes free and open software.

Android is Linux, they use the Linux kernel with almost no modifications. Android have their own display server and desktop environment(based on Qt's embedded display server), but that's no different than distro A using KDE, and distro B using Gnome... In fact, Ubuntu and others are starting to use Android's display server for Ubuntu for tablets, so the line is blurring even further.

whyterabbyt · Post by **whyterabbyt** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:47 pm

tenshin111 wrote:So what? Web servers and super computers are just market niches.

so are desktops. what's your point?

And Android is not Linux. It uses bits of Linux on low-level layer but on top of that is Google's runtime environment that has nothing to do with Linux. And the libraries are mostly not compatible with Linux either as Android has its own customised C libraries for example.

Irrelevant. The core operating system is Linux, just the same as the core operating system for OSX is Mach. An operating system is still a pretty clearly defined thing, best not to try and conflate it with the layers above that, eg the shell

Whether you want it or not, Linux is not a mainstream OS and will never be because of fragmentation and incompletness.

well, of course. if you're going to use your own private definition of 'mainstream' meaning 'anything desktop that isnt Linux'.

Also, its free nature doesn't help either - no serious developer will ever be interested in an OS that promotes free and open software.

Yeah, there's no serious developers in the 3D or film software indistries, good point. Autodesk dont earn billions and dwarf the entire audio software industry all on their own.

kangul · Post by **kangul** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:10 pm

tenshin111 wrote: It has nothing to do with greed. They are not charity - if they can't see a business case then they will not invest, simple as that.

"They are not charity" - quite popular belief, but it's not entirely correspond to the actual situation.

I understand your point. First of all, let's rephrase: if they can't see a business case - they are blind. And again, it is not a problem with Linux. Nobody wanted presonal computers before Apple I, and nobody wanted tablets before iPad (and no, I'm not an Apple fanboy, it's just nice examples of good work).

Second, if serious business wants to earn more money without any sign of investments and developments in new technologies for the people, it's called greed. Yes, it's a typical business model, but it does not mean that it's ok. There's a lot of other companies that practicing more ethical business models, and I just chose to support them.

Anyway, we are almost completely offtopic now. I am out of this thread, if somebody wants to discuss the role of unix-like technologies in modern IT world, just create a thread in offtopic section and PM me - I always welcome interesting conversations

Eauson · Post by **Eauson** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:22 pm

No cats, but a bit of a cat fight

Some FAQs http://www.bitwig.com/faqs.html

standalone · Post by **standalone** » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:02 pm

jeffh wrote:
standalone wrote: How quaint. The reason way there are no drivers or malware for Linux is the same, nobody cares for it. You call developers greedy for ignoring Linux, I call them sensible.

Linux is as insecure as any other piece of software and only protects through obscurity: Coding malware for it is not profitable.
Linux has over 90% market share of web servers and super computers, and over 50% of smartphones. I think that would constitute a big enough target, literally the only stronghold Windows has left is desktops...

And how is that relevant for audio production, the subject of this thread> sub-forum> forum? Try to ask M-Audio or Native instruments to code drivers for super computers or smart phones. Have you noticed the subject of my post?

Smart TVs' software is also based in Linux, if that makes you happy. I guess that those greedy bastards should code drivers for TVs too. Just to not being greedy, it doesn't matter if no one is going to use them, ever.

Open letter of advice to Bitwig