Bring Back the Bucket Brigade!!!

[Deist]

So, currently looking for the _most authentic_ vintage BBD effects (particularly Delay, and Chorus/Ensemble for true vintage stringmachine sound) available as VSTs.

I already know of the following:
- CromFX (WOK)
- String(FX) (Loomer)
- Syntorus (D16 Group)

My question is actually two-fold:
1- What are the VSTs that reproduce the hardware BBD qualities (NOT interested in a true faithful modeling, as in limitations and undesired non-/musically acceptable/ noisy side-effects)? (Free and commercials both welcome)
2- Which among these is/are the best(s) -- once again: in terms of being the closest to authentic BBD qualities? (Which should not be a subjective notion ^^).


As always, sorry if that has been covered thoroughly in a previous post (a quick search didn't reveal much...)


Note: Anyone with valuable infos to answer or point me to the right direction is very welcome! Just, if I'm allowed to say so, please stick to _facts_ that you have (ie. please refrain from just posting /opinions/ such as "I'm enjoying this one immensely", "Having a real thrill using that one!", and the like... No offence, as this is a precise matter about _authenticity/accuracy_ I'm asking about here).
I'm obviously interested to hear from knowledgeable people (there are quite a few around in KVR! (^_-)) able to provide me with the technical knowledge I'm honestly almost totally lacking myself, thus their judgement would be highly valued.
After reading kilometers of KVR threads, I'd say there are in fact some ppl here who clearly know what they're talking about technically speaking concerning vintage hardware emulation, and with enough experience to be respected and trusted. I'm thinking of eg. HunterKiller, as well as AlienMachine and WOK of course who I assume have researched the subject quite a bit to develop their respective stringmachines, and not forgetting one of my 2 favs sound designers around: Brok from Bigtone.

I'd be honoured to benefit from any of these guys' input on this... But once again, everybody's infos are welcome on that matter, thanks in advance!


EDIT: Here's a list of all the BBD plugins suggested in this thread so far...

***FREE***
Dust Bucket (SignalDust) (BBD but doesn't aim for authentic vintage sound though)
ET-200 (ArcDev Noise Industries)
ET-301 (ArcDev Noise Industries)
Tape Delay (E-phonic)
Nasty DLA (Variety of Sound)
Watkat (Genuine Soundware)
***PAYWARE***
DDD (SKnote)
Ronin (Audio Damage)
Dr. Device (Audio Damage)
Dubstation (Audio Damage)
Little Spacey (Expert Sleepers)
ChorX (Xils-lab)
GS-201 (Genuine Soundware)
UberMod (Valhalla)
BBD Echo-80 (AudioSyn)
EchoBoy (Soundtoys)
Not forgetting the very recent: Bloom (FXpansion)

[theodore_whitmore]

If I might consider your twofold question in reverse. 2: a BBD emulation which was objectively authentic would not be subjectively desirable to most people in my opinion. I don't think their existed a real BBD that offered both respectable delay times and a sensibly wide audio bandwidth. Off the top of my head a delay time of about 400 ms and a cutoff frequency of maybe 2 kHz would represent a good compromise. Clock-noise injected into the audio circuit and major league hiss are another two nasties that get ignored when the mythology is written.

1: without knowing, I would guess there are NO accurate BBD VSTs- that is VSTs that try to simulate 4 or more individual analogue delay chips placed in a series circuit. OK, someone will say I'm wrong because delay X does exactly that.....but in the main I think the implementation is a standard digital delay with LPF, saturation and some phase smearing in the feedback loop. That will get you most of the subjectively desirable characteristics of a BBD without going crazy trying to model stuff that just makes for a worse tool.

0: for the right sources a BBD can be the perfect 'blending' effect- obviously there without taking over the source. My favourite (free) VST versions would be ArcDev ET-301 and Bootsies Nasty DLA. I wouldn't judge either to sound necessarily believable as a 'real' BBD (although the ET-301 is modelled after a Yamaha hardware device, in intent at least) but they are both able to fulfil that role perfectly well. Now I will leave it to the people who know what they are talking about.

[scook]

ValhallaUberMod does a pretty good BBD emulation.

[thecontrolcentre]

AD Dubstation
ArcDev ET-301
GSi GS-201
E-phonic Tape Delay

[NAD]

...please refrain from just posting /opinions/ such as "I'm enjoying this one immensely", "Having a real thrill using that one!", and the like... No offence...

Be nicer.

[Liero]

The best modern hardware BBD delay is possibly the Electro-Harmonix Memory Man Deluxe 1100 (1100ms max delay time). Shouldn't have a hiss problem either.

[vata44]

Variety of Sound - Nasty DLA

[theodore_whitmore]

Incidentally, if anyone who codes this stuff is reading I would be interested to know: how would a circuit-modelled BBD likely compare with a circuit-modelled 0 delay filter in terms of complexity and CPU usage?

[toast]

I have Audio Damage's Dubstation and while I don't think it's an especially accurate model of a BBD delay, and definitely not an accurate model of Blacet Time Machine, I do think it captures some of the spirit and the immediacy.

I was actually thinking about this yesterday when I saw the BBD button on FXpansion's new delay. Are there any BBD plugins out there that change the effective sampling rate when you sweep the delay time? Because I don't know of any and it's a sound I like to abuse. There are a lot of plugins I haven't tried but those that I have only sound like they have an eq curve and a saturator type thing in the feedback line. I think Strymon have a pedal that might be attempting a more accurate model of a BBD but I don't really need a digital model in a pedal of an analog pedal I already have. That's like two people texting each other while sitting at the same table ... post modern.

As far as the market for a realistic BBD delay plugin while I would buy one in a second if the developer could keep it simple if you are into the sound a real BBD delay is really easy to get a hold of, some for cheaper than a plugin, and they are super fun and encourage you to tweak them live. I'm not sure if I would end up with any of the same sounds not having any knobs to wiggle.

[theodore_whitmore]

I wanted a Korg DL 8000 back in the nineties because they did that trick of smoothly changing the delay time by changing the sampling rate, but in crispy digital quality and with a max delay time of about ten seconds. I've seen one on Fleabay in the last three years and if I found one it would cost me twice now what it would have then. I'd love to see that one as a vst.

I use the ET 301 automapped a lot. You're exactly right toast- having just a few controls under your fingers encourages to tweak out new sounds as you go. The pitch sweeps pretty smoothly as you change the delay time too. Works much like the real thing even if it doesn't sound much like it.

[Tp3]

Are there any BBD plugins out there that change the effective sampling rate when you sweep the delay time?

Watkat ?...

[Deist]

Thank you all for your replies! I'm gonna add your suggestions to my 1st post for others who might be interested in that.

a BBD emulation which was objectively authentic would not be subjectively desirable to most people in my opinion. I don't think their existed a real BBD that offered both respectable delay times and a sensibly wide audio bandwidth. Off the top of my head a delay time of about 400 ms and a cutoff frequency of maybe 2 kHz would represent a good compromise. Clock-noise injected into the audio circuit and major league hiss are another two nasties that get ignored when the mythology is written.

1: without knowing, I would guess there are NO accurate BBD VSTs- that is VSTs that try to simulate 4 or more individual analogue delay chips placed in a series circuit. OK, someone will say I'm wrong because delay X does exactly that.....but in the main I think the implementation is a standard digital delay with LPF, saturation and some phase smearing in the feedback loop. That will get you most of the subjectively desirable characteristics of a BBD without going crazy trying to model stuff that just makes for a worse tool

I hear you! As I'm not such an emulation-maniac that I'd seek modeling accuracy over sound quality. What I'm looking for is obviously tools providing those "subjectively desirable characteristics of a BBD", not the limitations and non-musical side-effects. Will edit my post accordingly.

Now I will leave it to the people who know what they are talking about.

Hehe, you seem to know your share Mister! Thx for the insight!

...please refrain from just posting /opinions/ such as "I'm enjoying this one immensely", "Having a real thrill using that one!", and the like... No offence...

Be nicer.

Hi there NAD! No worries: please be specific about exactly what word(s) or expression(s) in my post you find rude and why, and I'll edit them out. (Given you're so far the only person offended (despite my clearly stated "no offence"), I don't judge it necessary to modify anything without proper reason, thank you)

[Deist]

if you are into the sound a real BBD delay is really easy to get a hold of, some for cheaper than a plugin, and they are super fun and encourage you to tweak them live.

For reasons of conveniency and simplicity (in my setup, not simplicity of use), I'm not ready to deal with anything but software, although I reckon your suggestion is fair enough.

I'm not sure if I would end up with any of the same sounds not having any knobs to wiggle.

Quite true, and I have no less than 3 MIDI controllers (counting my PCR-800 keyboard that has his fair share of knobs/sliders) for exactly that purpose with the plugins I use.

[waiting man]

units with panasonic mn3005 chips are sexy.

[Lotuzia]

Xils-lab ChorX recreates several configurations of BBD famous Chorus units.

According to many owners of the "real things", its fairly accurate.

As a Xils unit, it can also do some special things that your usual HW Chorus, as well as your software one, just cant imagine, like transcient shaping to chorus even percussive sources, or benefiting of its True Dynamic Stereo Engine to build great stereo scenes.

The 3 different configurations at the moment in the ChorX are : CS-, Sy ( inherited from Synthix Chorus ), and .... Dimension.

More details : www.xils-lab.com

LtZ