Are we seeing the decline of the plug-in industry?

[schnapsglas]

For something like Plugin Alliance, whose plugins I could not live without, I generally plan a tactical strike*. Currently it's a good idea to get all SPL, because under dynamic and SPL voucher everything will go down $100 each. Then add some plugins less than $200 that you wanted so it drops below $99.

For me, sale generally doesn't cause impulse, but rather the opposite. Because many times it's predictable. But when it's unpredictable...

*Like a thumbtack in a McChicken sandwich. (obscure reference)

While I was talking about Plugin Alliance, ... see the deal center.

[hibidy]

@topic: not while I'm alive

@plugin alliance: I went a little crazy over the holidays.

[pdxindy]

Remember when CD prices first went up to $17-20? Customers didn't want to pay that much for a CD with only one or two songs on it that they liked. I think something similar is occurring with plug-ins. I do feel bad for those whose passion is to create this stuff, but how do you compete with free? iTunes $1/per song is how! Plug-in creators have to find a way to follow that model; go cheap, in bulk and make money. Or, create a new model. Waves clearly sees this and has been adjusting their prices accordingly.

Charging more than $50 for a single plug-in is soooo 2005

Analogy is different... the market for synth/effects plug-ins is minuscule by comparison...


I am very happy to pay $150-200 for a good synth. I am happy to pay that because I will get far more use than that out of it. I also want creative innovative developers to stay in business and to maintain some integrity. For a real cheap price they will have to sell far more, which means selling to people who have no real need for it, which is a lie. It also means more time spent catering to a mass market mentality than their own unique vision.

All the people who just want more more more for less less less are promoting a social tendency I am opposed to.

[pdxindy]

Wow. Just wow. That's all I can say when I hear someone complain about the cost of plugins in 2013, when great software is almost given away and talented, hardworking developers everywhere are struggling to make ends meet and sometimes (despite having made products that "everyone" in the industry knows about) not even making enough money to eat a proper diet. Incredible.

+1

(Try being a farmer)

[overhishead]

only reason you wouldn't download a snowboard is that 3D printers aren't big enough yet

That's exactly right! World's changing folks

wow. just wow. if we had 3d printers in the 80's my parents could have printed out my he-man figures. but it would have been piracy. im glad there weren't 3d printers in the 80s who knows, my parents might have been criminals printing out copies of copyrighted toys.

crap! look out for the future, it looks like a hammer.

how will they know the made in china plastic crap from the made at home plastic crap? i guess there will be an electronic trail from the 3d mesh file or whatever. FBI will be the new Wal Mart trading parents for toys. Kids dropping dimes on their parents after getting grounded. The only way around this may be to legalize weed with no minimum age limit.

[blueman]

Wow. Just wow. That's all I can say when I hear someone complain about the cost of plugins in 2013, when great software is almost given away and talented, hardworking developers everywhere are struggling to make ends meet and sometimes (despite having made products that "everyone" in the industry knows about) not even making enough money to eat a proper diet. Incredible.

I hear you, but it's not a guaranteed market and certainly, no one is entitled to success just because they work hard and have talent. I could easily say the same that you said about talented musicians who are getting paid even LESS than these developers (in most cases). If we, as musicians, cannot make money with our art, then naturally, the tools we purchase are going to lose value over time. There are only so many "hobbyist" musicians to fund a boutique plugin market and if semi-pros have to GIVE away their hard work, how can you expect to keep funding expensive plugins? Them's just the facts y'all! Believe me, it is drying up. This is simply the world we find ourselves in.

Of course, whoever wants to pay more for plug-ins is free to do so

[blueman]

All the people who just want more more more for less less less are promoting a social tendency I am opposed to.

Fair enough. Are you willing to pay "more more more" for musicians to survive and thrive too? We don't do this work in a vacuum. The less market there is for music, the less market there is for the tools used to make music. Yes, hobbyists will always fill some niche but prices will still have to drop based on lack of demand; simple economics there.

Studios are closing down and Waves is dramatically dropping prices on their offerings. Can you imagine them EVER releasing a new synth a few years ago for $99?! This is Waves we are talking about! I think the evidence speaks for itself, no?

[schnapsglas]

All the people who just want more more more for less less less are promoting a social tendency I am opposed to.

Fair enough. Are you willing to pay "more more more" for musicians to survive and thrive too? We don't do this work in a vacuum. The less market there is for music, the less market there is for the tools used to make music. Yes, hobbyists will always fill some niche but prices will still have to drop based on lack of demand; simple economics there.

Studios are closing down and Waves is dramatically dropping prices on their offerings. Can you imagine them EVER releasing a new synth a few years ago for $99?! This is Waves we are talking about! I think the evidence speaks for itself, no?

Mighty waves releasing a synth for $99... yeah... Would have expected something like $499 with a hardware version coming up with their different modules...

[Delfinoverde]

Nah, the genius part is an urban legend, the only genius cracker I know died in 2009. They're mainly bored people who can't work out high-grade CrackMes and thus refrain fom that to cracking easier things - such as audio software with sloppy protection.

It didn't take a genius to crack stuff on a C64, but it takes way more than being a genius to fully understand today's software in binary form. It takes tools like IDA Pro, and even a bored script kiddie can crack most of the stuff out there. Here comes the point: IDA Pro is useless for the copy protection scheme we chose. I doubt they even understand what's happening.

That said, with the voice of an upset child: "Our copy protection is genius itself - it's always one better than any cracker".

We have great reports from other developers who have implemented those ideas (they're not just mine). Cracker Teams have given up because their "fame" was based only on temporarily unlocked demo restrictions.

Thus I think, if every developer abandoned the stupid myth of "you can't prevent it - crackers are coding gods" and upped his protection just a little bit, everyone would profit - except for freetards. Those 20% of extra revenue can be spent on improving software rather than sessions and anti-depressants.

NO, this time you're wrong Mr.Heckmann!
You clearly have a wrong image of those crackers out there. They're not a bunch of bored teenagers or whatever - some are probably older than you and with more knowledge! The developers may think that they're extra-smart but in the end every software can be cracked. Just the efforts make the difference. Once again: Developers who invest too much in copy protection are simply wasting time and money they could use to improve their software.

[schnapsglas]

Nah, the genius part is an urban legend, the only genius cracker I know died in 2009. They're mainly bored people who can't work out high-grade CrackMes and thus refrain fom that to cracking easier things - such as audio software with sloppy protection.

It didn't take a genius to crack stuff on a C64, but it takes way more than being a genius to fully understand today's software in binary form. It takes tools like IDA Pro, and even a bored script kiddie can crack most of the stuff out there. Here comes the point: IDA Pro is useless for the copy protection scheme we chose. I doubt they even understand what's happening.

That said, with the voice of an upset child: "Our copy protection is genius itself - it's always one better than any cracker".

We have great reports from other developers who have implemented those ideas (they're not just mine). Cracker Teams have given up because their "fame" was based only on temporarily unlocked demo restrictions.

Thus I think, if every developer abandoned the stupid myth of "you can't prevent it - crackers are coding gods" and upped his protection just a little bit, everyone would profit - except for freetards. Those 20% of extra revenue can be spent on improving software rather than sessions and anti-depressants.

NO, this time you're wrong Mr.Heckmann!
You clearly have a wrong image of those crackers out there. They're not a bunch of bored teenagers or whatever - some are probably older than you and with more knowledge! The developers may think that they're extra-smart but in the end every software can be cracked. Just the efforts make the difference. Once again: Developers who invest too much in copy protection are simply wasting time and money they could use to improve their software.

I disagree. Some crackers, yes, I have to admit, are very very good. Yes, every software can be cracked. But does it worth the effort to crack something like Diva? (oh, not saying Diva is bad, Urs )

Everything can be cracked. But in the crack scene (don't ask me how I know...) there are bunch of bored teenager-minded people for sure. It is not like the older days. In fact, cracking methods have come down to a full stop -- because there are simply too many things released, and no one has been able to crack Cubase 6. It just isn't worth the time though.

So you could say economically, if u-he has enough protection, they will be safe since crack teams now tend to focus on "low hanging fruits." It takes an enormous amount of reverse engineering for copy protections that are "unintuitive," and crack teams these days simply don't go for that. Cubase has been safe since version 6, and Reason has been safe for quite a while now too. And you have to wonder why in so some of developing country's studios, they still use Cubase SX. Yes, crackers are smart, but so are developers, and they always have the head start.

Something like Windows and SLIC injection, or iOS unlocking, that's different story. There are some legendary hackers, but they end up making a lot more doing consultations, etc. anyway.

[pdxindy]

All the people who just want more more more for less less less are promoting a social tendency I am opposed to.

Fair enough. Are you willing to pay "more more more" for musicians to survive and thrive too? We don't do this work in a vacuum. The less market there is for music, the less market there is for the tools used to make music. Yes, hobbyists will always fill some niche but prices will still have to drop based on lack of demand; simple economics there.

Studios are closing down and Waves is dramatically dropping prices on their offerings. Can you imagine them EVER releasing a new synth a few years ago for $99?! This is Waves we are talking about! I think the evidence speaks for itself, no?

I would say Waves WAS overpriced. I am not interested in supporting an 'exclusivity surcharge'. I value the democratizing of availability and that small independent developers have affected companies like Waves and forced their prices down is a good thing imo. But the demand by users that prices just keep going down is driven by purchasing compulsion and that is the tendency I don't wish to support.

Likewise, with musicians, when I come across a street musician who I really like, I am happy to purchase their CD cause I know the money is going right to the musician themselves. So yes, I am happy to help support a musician whose music I value.

I like purchasing right from a plug-in developer, or from a musicians own website.

And there is plenty to go around if the vampire bankers weren't sucking the life out of whole countries! (but that is another topic not suited for this forum)

[robotmonkey]

Studios are closing down and Waves is dramatically dropping prices on their offerings. Can you imagine them EVER releasing a new synth a few years ago for $99?! This is Waves we are talking about! I think the evidence speaks for itself, no?

It's the way technological innovation works. Studios are closing because recording hardware prices have gone down and a lot of people can afford their own home studios now. Even more so if everything is done "in box".

And Waves has now some competition. Couple of years ago they were the only real "pro" plugin maker. Not so anymore. That their new synth goes for 99$ for a third consecutive month probably says a lot about what the general opinion of it is.

[fluffy_little_something]

The funny thing is that there are countless synths out there, but I don't know a single one yet that is ideal for me, a synth that strikes the right balance between features, sound, CPU usage, price, user interface, etc. There is at least one issue with every synth I have tried to far. If I finally found the right synth, I would stop looking and buying... For that ideal synth I would not mind paying 150 bucks.

[pdxindy]

Nah, the genius part is an urban legend, the only genius cracker I know died in 2009. They're mainly bored people who can't work out high-grade CrackMes and thus refrain fom that to cracking easier things - such as audio software with sloppy protection.

It didn't take a genius to crack stuff on a C64, but it takes way more than being a genius to fully understand today's software in binary form. It takes tools like IDA Pro, and even a bored script kiddie can crack most of the stuff out there. Here comes the point: IDA Pro is useless for the copy protection scheme we chose. I doubt they even understand what's happening.

That said, with the voice of an upset child: "Our copy protection is genius itself - it's always one better than any cracker".

We have great reports from other developers who have implemented those ideas (they're not just mine). Cracker Teams have given up because their "fame" was based only on temporarily unlocked demo restrictions.

Thus I think, if every developer abandoned the stupid myth of "you can't prevent it - crackers are coding gods" and upped his protection just a little bit, everyone would profit - except for freetards. Those 20% of extra revenue can be spent on improving software rather than sessions and anti-depressants.

NO, this time you're wrong Mr.Heckmann!
You clearly have a wrong image of those crackers out there. They're not a bunch of bored teenagers or whatever - some are probably older than you and with more knowledge! The developers may think that they're extra-smart but in the end every software can be cracked. Just the efforts make the difference. Once again: Developers who invest too much in copy protection are simply wasting time and money they could use to improve their software.

If hackers are as good as you say, then they should do something useful... but they aren't, and they don't. Preying on some small developer who is barely able to pay rent is reprehensible.

[pdxindy]

The funny thing is that there are countless synths out there, but I don't know a single one yet that is ideal for me, a synth that strikes the right balance between features, sound, CPU usage, price, user interface, etc. There is at least one issue with every synth I have tried to far. If I finally found the right synth, I would stop looking and buying... For that ideal synth I would not mind paying 150 bucks.

Sounds like you are looking for the perfect wife