LawrenceF wrote:A cat fight?hibidy wrote:See this is what happens when there is a "real" bitwig thread.
Open letter of advice to Bitwig
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- KVRAF
- 6242 posts since 26 Sep, 2003 from right here, as you can see ...
and that for a reason. period.michi_mak wrote:Studio Onevastarray wrote:Can anyone name a new DAW that came out in the last few years priced over $100?
regards,
brok landers
BIGTONEsounddesign
gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man
brok landers
BIGTONEsounddesign
gear is as good as the innovation behind it-the man
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- KVRAF
- 2696 posts since 3 Aug, 2003 from Narnia
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- KVRAF
- 7540 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area
Dear Bitwig,
Make your DAW powerful, like a mighty stallion bracing against the wind as it hurtles ever onwards into the future. Drench it in the scent of young love, spread out beneath a grove of tangerines one lazy summer afternoon. Polish it until it gleams like the purest diamond, refracting every color of our sonic dreams. Bestow upon it the charm, grace, and innocence of Hello Kitty. Make it as solid as the living rock of Stonehenge. Cast its brilliant light out into the universe, that others might know we once existed. Season it to perfection, as succulent and irresistible as a Hostess Twinkie. Adorn it with more bells and whistles than a Christmas tree at FAO Schwarz on 5th Avenue. Oh, and you could you make it $50? kthxby
Make your DAW powerful, like a mighty stallion bracing against the wind as it hurtles ever onwards into the future. Drench it in the scent of young love, spread out beneath a grove of tangerines one lazy summer afternoon. Polish it until it gleams like the purest diamond, refracting every color of our sonic dreams. Bestow upon it the charm, grace, and innocence of Hello Kitty. Make it as solid as the living rock of Stonehenge. Cast its brilliant light out into the universe, that others might know we once existed. Season it to perfection, as succulent and irresistible as a Hostess Twinkie. Adorn it with more bells and whistles than a Christmas tree at FAO Schwarz on 5th Avenue. Oh, and you could you make it $50? kthxby
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.
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- Banned
- 147 posts since 4 Feb, 2012 from Carolina Beach
I'm going to respond to the 'Open Letter to Bitwig' here, but I'm not going to quote big blocks of text. I'm going to assume you have memories and recall what you read. I personally find these big block quotes annoying as hell and an unfortunate trend these days.
I disagree with many of the points made in the letter, but I'll only discuss the ones that interest me most. First off, the logic behind most of the letter is faulty. There are as many DAWs as there are foreign countries lately, and there are as many personal preferences in the people choosing them, so telling anyone what a DAW is supposed to be like is a waste of time. DAWs and people both have their own unique workflows, and what works for you may not work for me. Some people like to bring all their own third-party tools to their chosen DAW; others like a DAW to provide a full selection of in-house items. Then there is every shade of in between. I'll go as far as using an external editor at times, if the DAW allows this easily. I also insist on using my own very carefully auditioned and collected plugin effects, but I know many others who greatly prefer using the huge assortment that, for example REAPER, Ableton and, to some extent, Reason provide. I could say the following to almost every decree made in the OP's letter, so remember this throughout: TO EACH HIS OWN!
I make feature requests at times on the forums that support the DAWs I own. But I never tell the owners (and I know a couple of these guys now) what they have to include or leave out of their software. This is because I stay mindful that the software I'm using is used by many others. It is not the Telenator DAW 4.3.
Now, there is a very good reason Bitwig will include loops and samples. It is of the family of segment and loop DAWs, as is Ableton. I am very much a track-based engineer, so these would not benefit me either. Although I own Live 8, I do not use it much. I'm no DJ or Dub-style artist and don't record by plopping down chunks and loops and letting them play for hours while I conceive of more to add. I'm not knocking that, though. I understand its value completely. My son is an Ableton artist and achieves great results. But I came to DAWs from reel tape and large studio desks, so the track arrangers suit me best. For the loop style, though, a large 'pile of stuff' -- samples and loops -- does make for a better product.
The pricing. My Reaper was some $60 I think. Only one or two other top-notch DAWs are so inexpensive. It is certainly not the norm, and don't expect Bitwig to be cheap. For good reason, too -- it is all-new coding, all new product, even if bits were borrowed from Live in its design. New and highly anticipated always costs more. In the end, the rule here in most any business is "Whatever the market will bear." You charge what your target market will be willing to pay.
I further disagree with the remark that Ableton and other DAW users are "locked down" with their current DAW. Nothing could be further from the truth. You watch, and you will soon see a swarm of disgruntled Ableton users head quickly to Bitwig. In fact, there will be a war of sorts. I wish I had time to cover all the background, but you can wait and see for yourselves. Ableton users are accustomed to paying about $400 USD for the pro edition DAW. In fact, this is about the going price, give or take $100, for many others -- Cubase, for example. Users shift from DAW to DAW every year en masse. Some, such as myself, own several and always have an eye on potential change, the notion of trying a new one to go along with their Number 1. No such locked-in behavior here at all. Wherever did you get that idea?
No, workflow is NOT all that matters. I stare into my DAWs for hours on end, so it better not look like crap or be shaded what I call that "Corpse Gray" that has suddenly become the trendy skin. It's ugly! One of the reasons I chose REAPER was that the layout and skinning was highly customisable. Mine now looks beautiful and this complements its function. I also bought Zynewave's Podium. Aside from being even more customisable, it is without question I believe the most stunningly beautiful DAW of them all. And it should be -- Frits specialised in GUI and graphic design when he was at T.C.Electronics. If I have to look on for hours a stretch, it better be dang purty!
AS important as workflow is how a DAW deals with the 3rd-party software you bring to it. I also choose DAWs that are rock solid with plugins and almost NEVER crash from a buggy plugin causing trouble. There isn't going to BE any workflow if you can not get your tool up and keep it hard at the task it was made for! (Hehe!)
Finally, as I think this covers enough, I totally disagree with whoever St. Poopery is, whom you quoted at the end -- at least when it comes to DAWs. Look, there is always something to add, fix, change, remove, update, etc., etc., etc. on a DAW. This is because NO DAW is perfect. All DAWs are flawed and all lack one or more important feature. Maybe Ichiro Toda achieved perfection with his awesome classic Synth1, maybe Urs Heckman has with his Zebra2 synth, but for the rest of us mortal, flawed human beings and devs, we design flawed stuff! So get used to it. Pick what suits you and let me use what works best with me, and please don't tell others what they must build or use. Suggestions are always welcome IF you are a paying customer of the product, but otherwise you are treading on very thin ice when you tell anyone how their artistry is supposed to be -- and trust me, audio software design is an art as much or more than it is a science. Cheers!
I disagree with many of the points made in the letter, but I'll only discuss the ones that interest me most. First off, the logic behind most of the letter is faulty. There are as many DAWs as there are foreign countries lately, and there are as many personal preferences in the people choosing them, so telling anyone what a DAW is supposed to be like is a waste of time. DAWs and people both have their own unique workflows, and what works for you may not work for me. Some people like to bring all their own third-party tools to their chosen DAW; others like a DAW to provide a full selection of in-house items. Then there is every shade of in between. I'll go as far as using an external editor at times, if the DAW allows this easily. I also insist on using my own very carefully auditioned and collected plugin effects, but I know many others who greatly prefer using the huge assortment that, for example REAPER, Ableton and, to some extent, Reason provide. I could say the following to almost every decree made in the OP's letter, so remember this throughout: TO EACH HIS OWN!
I make feature requests at times on the forums that support the DAWs I own. But I never tell the owners (and I know a couple of these guys now) what they have to include or leave out of their software. This is because I stay mindful that the software I'm using is used by many others. It is not the Telenator DAW 4.3.
Now, there is a very good reason Bitwig will include loops and samples. It is of the family of segment and loop DAWs, as is Ableton. I am very much a track-based engineer, so these would not benefit me either. Although I own Live 8, I do not use it much. I'm no DJ or Dub-style artist and don't record by plopping down chunks and loops and letting them play for hours while I conceive of more to add. I'm not knocking that, though. I understand its value completely. My son is an Ableton artist and achieves great results. But I came to DAWs from reel tape and large studio desks, so the track arrangers suit me best. For the loop style, though, a large 'pile of stuff' -- samples and loops -- does make for a better product.
The pricing. My Reaper was some $60 I think. Only one or two other top-notch DAWs are so inexpensive. It is certainly not the norm, and don't expect Bitwig to be cheap. For good reason, too -- it is all-new coding, all new product, even if bits were borrowed from Live in its design. New and highly anticipated always costs more. In the end, the rule here in most any business is "Whatever the market will bear." You charge what your target market will be willing to pay.
I further disagree with the remark that Ableton and other DAW users are "locked down" with their current DAW. Nothing could be further from the truth. You watch, and you will soon see a swarm of disgruntled Ableton users head quickly to Bitwig. In fact, there will be a war of sorts. I wish I had time to cover all the background, but you can wait and see for yourselves. Ableton users are accustomed to paying about $400 USD for the pro edition DAW. In fact, this is about the going price, give or take $100, for many others -- Cubase, for example. Users shift from DAW to DAW every year en masse. Some, such as myself, own several and always have an eye on potential change, the notion of trying a new one to go along with their Number 1. No such locked-in behavior here at all. Wherever did you get that idea?
No, workflow is NOT all that matters. I stare into my DAWs for hours on end, so it better not look like crap or be shaded what I call that "Corpse Gray" that has suddenly become the trendy skin. It's ugly! One of the reasons I chose REAPER was that the layout and skinning was highly customisable. Mine now looks beautiful and this complements its function. I also bought Zynewave's Podium. Aside from being even more customisable, it is without question I believe the most stunningly beautiful DAW of them all. And it should be -- Frits specialised in GUI and graphic design when he was at T.C.Electronics. If I have to look on for hours a stretch, it better be dang purty!
AS important as workflow is how a DAW deals with the 3rd-party software you bring to it. I also choose DAWs that are rock solid with plugins and almost NEVER crash from a buggy plugin causing trouble. There isn't going to BE any workflow if you can not get your tool up and keep it hard at the task it was made for! (Hehe!)
Finally, as I think this covers enough, I totally disagree with whoever St. Poopery is, whom you quoted at the end -- at least when it comes to DAWs. Look, there is always something to add, fix, change, remove, update, etc., etc., etc. on a DAW. This is because NO DAW is perfect. All DAWs are flawed and all lack one or more important feature. Maybe Ichiro Toda achieved perfection with his awesome classic Synth1, maybe Urs Heckman has with his Zebra2 synth, but for the rest of us mortal, flawed human beings and devs, we design flawed stuff! So get used to it. Pick what suits you and let me use what works best with me, and please don't tell others what they must build or use. Suggestions are always welcome IF you are a paying customer of the product, but otherwise you are treading on very thin ice when you tell anyone how their artistry is supposed to be -- and trust me, audio software design is an art as much or more than it is a science. Cheers!
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The_Hidden_Goose The_Hidden_Goose https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10878 - KVRian
- 945 posts since 8 Dec, 2003 from Birmingham-ish, UK (Tamworth, but shhh!)
...but....but...me! ME! What I Want!
Q. Why is a mouse when it spins?
A. The higher the fewer.
A. The higher the fewer.
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- KVRAF
- 27000 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
I love that flat dull grey... It's lovely!The Telenator wrote:I stare into my DAWs for hours on end, so it better not look like crap or be shaded what I call that "Corpse Gray" that has suddenly become the trendy skin. It's ugly!
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- KVRAF
- 6159 posts since 4 Dec, 2004
Leaving the Chao-Lin temple is harder than getting in.hibidy wrote:My only suggestion is that they actually finish it someday and release it. Baby steps........
You can see the Bitwig Kitty preparing for a series of final tests below on the right...
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- KVRAF
- 21348 posts since 26 Jul, 2005 from Gone
Today's advice has been brought to you by the letter 'D'.debra1rlo wrote:if you only had access to bitwiggileaks, bitchez, FLAIL AWAY FOR MY AMUSEMENT LIKE THE SCATPUPPETS YOU ARE BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
:nelsonmuntzhawhawemoticon:
