Is realtime oversampling a dirty/destructive process?

[bmanic]

.. which reminds me. Anybody know a distortion plugin where you can "tune" each harmonic to go slightly off a multiple of the fundamental (don't know how to explain this. Language fails me here)?

I mean, instead of getting 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc orders of harmonics I could force the 5th harmonic to be 4.95 from the fundamental instead.

Would be interesting to hear how this behaves.

You can probably get a certain idea with additive synthesis that allows each partial to be microtuned (is there such a thing or do I have to build my own additive synth simply by using multiple oscillators?).

Cheers!
bManic

[Nokenoku]

Harmor can do that by using the "Prism" feature.
Sounds "spacy" in my opinion.

[v1o]

as a user I will ALWAYS prefer your medium solution over your best solution, becouse it allows me to switch anti-alias processing off when is not necessary /when aliasing is desirable or when working with higher SR/ and same time it allows me to fine tune anti-alias processing according to my actual need...

to me your best solution typically is not very user friendly /black box sort of/ and do not allow any fine tuning

I fully agree on your comment concernig worst solution...

btw-I dont know ANY distortion plugin using your best solution with overall excellent results /=with no alias/ similar to say 16x high quality oversampling

Why would you want that? If there is no aliasing or signal degradation, then there will be no need to compensate with over sampling.

[@midnight]

i think he's saying he doesn't know of any plugins that do all these >

- generate excellent, alias free distortion
- without oversampling

and i agree with him. if you try to add distortion with high frequencies, it causes aliasing, unless you oversample.

and by distortion, I mean an actual decent amount of distortion, not the ever so subtle kind that you can barely hear anyways. of course then it doesn't usually matter.

[kvaca]

Harmor can do that by using the "Prism" feature.
Sounds "spacy" in my opinion.

but Harmor is NOT a distortion plugin, its a synth -isnt it?

[kvaca]

.. which reminds me. Anybody know a distortion plugin where you can "tune" each harmonic to go slightly off a multiple of the fundamental (don't know how to explain this. Language fails me here)?

I mean, instead of getting 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc orders of harmonics I could force the 5th harmonic to be 4.95 from the fundamental instead.

tell me how to extract individual odd order harmonics and I will tell you how to detune them!

AFAIK only even order harmonics can be extracted from distortion plugin which can create individual harmonics...I did some experiments with chorusing and frequency shifting only even harmonics - really nice close to placebo stuff in Nebula style, also good for wasting a lot of time

[kvaca]

Why would you want that? If there is no aliasing or signal degradation, then there will be no need to compensate with over sampling.

so you know any distortion plugin with no aliasing? if yes - tell me...

[DaveGamble]

.. which reminds me. Anybody know a distortion plugin where you can "tune" each harmonic to go slightly off a multiple of the fundamental (don't know how to explain this. Language fails me here)?

I mean, instead of getting 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th etc orders of harmonics I could force the 5th harmonic to be 4.95 from the fundamental instead.

tell me how to extract individual odd order harmonics and I will tell you how to detune them!

AFAIK only even order harmonics can be extracted from distortion plugin which can create individual harmonics...I did some experiments with chorusing and frequency shifting only even harmonics - really nice close to placebo stuff in Nebula style, also good for wasting a lot of time

Use my Chebyshev strategy, then feed the outputs into pitch shifters!! That would work!

(Edit: because T_n(x)==cos(n arccos(x)) . So, it's true for data at 0dBFS, which is optimal here in a loose sense.)

Dave.

[kvaca]

Use my Chebyshev strategy, then feed the outputs into pitch shifters!! That would work!

(Edit: because T_n(x)==cos(n arccos(x)) . So, it's true for data at 0dBFS, which is optimal here in a loose sense.)

Dave.

are you saying that you CAN extract individual odd order harmonics in any volume level, not only 0 dbfs?? if yes it would be great surprise!!

btw-I do prefer good frequency shifter

[David Else]

No oversampling

4x Oversampling of all compressors


Nobody commented on these. Am I imagining things or can somebody hear the annoyance thing happening at the upper mid frequencies on the non-oversampled one? Would be very interesting to hear your thoughts.

Cheers!
bManic

THANKS for making this example. It is strange more people have not commented on it.

I have found that people just don't like committing their opinions on sound examples on forums. They do love to give reasons why they have not commented, its a universal phenomena related to some psychological something or other

MY excuse is I have only got the laptop speakers to listen with online at the moment, still, the difference is big enough. My first impression was (its more the mid range i am hearing on the laptop) for the non oversampled an 8 bit sound! I can hear that kind of tone in it, like a SID chip.

The oversampled sounds much better on my laptop, BUT i know from experience i don't like oversampled (up then down to 44.1) sound on my proper speakers and DAC. Its subtle, but the sound gets smaller and weaker. I am sure it depends on what software is doing the oversampling and how, but i can't think of any software I have tried with user selectable oversample rate where it doesn't happen.

[tony tony chopper]

It is strange more people have not commented on it.

What's to comment? It's a test for a specific plugin - no one argues about differences, but the reason behind them.

You can render a synth & have less aliasing when oversampling it. Is that a proof that a synth needs oversampling to have less aliasing? No. It's just a proof that one synth does.

[Crackbaby]

My reasons for not commenting on the audio files..:

I read his thoughts on how they were different before i listened so i couldn't trust my ears .. Maybe i could hear what he heard though. The soundclip wasn't too earfriendly so i didn't listen through it that many times .. maybe 10 each. Actually felt kind of fatigued after that :p Maybe an example with more dynamics would be interesting also (classical maybe?) This was so "IN YOUR FACE!"

How do you get to run The GLue as 64x in offline mode? I find no options

[David Else]

It is strange more people have not commented on it.

What's to comment? It's a test for a specific plugin - no one argues about differences, but the reason behind them.

You can render a synth & have less aliasing when oversampling it. Is that a proof that a synth needs oversampling to have less aliasing? No. It's just a proof that one synth does.

I totally get what you are saying, but this entire thread is just talk with no audio examples. bManic is the only person who has gone to the bother of supplying one, and I think the results are interesting and worth discussing.

[Nokenoku]

Harmor can do that by using the "Prism" feature.
Sounds "spacy" in my opinion.

but Harmor is NOT a distortion plugin, its a synth -isnt it?

Again:
It's recommended to actually READ, what other people write before engaging in a discussion/conversation.

You can probably get a certain idea with additive synthesis that allows each partial to be microtuned (is there such a thing or do I have to build my own additive synth simply by using multiple oscillators?).

[@midnight]

Im waiting to see the example of the distortion plugin capable of producing lots of distortion without aliasing, and without oversampling.

I see a lot of developers in this thread saying its easy to do.

Lets see the plugin.