KVR Audio

vincenti · Post by **vincenti** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:58 am

Okay so that doesn't feel like a well constructed sentence to me either. I did some searching on the forum and couldn't find what I was looking for, if you know that the answer to my question is out there if you kindly point me toward that I'm more than happy to not get a direct answer here.

With that out of the way I'd like to introduce myself, I'm Vincénti... I compose music and play instruments. I'm not really savvy as far as gear and production stuff goes but I got some kind of foundation. My computer is decent some 2500k i5 with at 3700 mhz with 8gb ram and a pretty decent set of sound interfaces and controllers connected to it. I'm mostly interested in having an efficient workflow and that was working great for me until I ran into cpu problems.

At the time I was using 7 instances of Amplitube 3.7 with ableton live 8, 3 instances of massive, some Izotope Equalizers and an instance of Battery 3. For me that should be "the minimum" that I'd like to use when composing, writing and recording, but it started glitching and yea... In the research I did the following days I found that both Ableton and Amplitube and Izotope ozone are kind of CPU-hogs and I found this disturbing since I spent a lot of time learning these software while being a bit computer-dyslexic. Learning new software is not a big deal as long as I know that I can then use them, but learning new software by trial and error would unfortiunately take me years due to the fact that I'm not good at computers.

My big question is this, are there some very lighweight replacement plugins that can cover for amplitube and could I get up to maybe 20 instances of realtime simulated guitar amps without much negative effects? Money is not a problem. Sorry if I've been babbling on, it took me a lot of time to figure out how to post on here.

Kind regards

Vincenti Zghra

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:03 pm

depends on what you want. if your 20 instances are all full of crazy FX than no, there's no lightweight alternative because what you are doing isn't supposed to be lightweight.

if, on the other hand, you just use amps and don't care much for FX (or use external FX), you might try amps-as-separate-plugins such as LePou, TSE or Ignite Amps stuff (all free), or something along the lines of Kuassa ONE/Creme/Vermillion - which aren't remotely as flexible as Amplitube but may be just exactly what you need. Be aware that TSE/LePou/Ignite Amps are heads only so you will need some kind of cabinet simulator as well (i highly recommend Recabinet, or you can check out LePou Lecab 2, but you'll need good cabinet impulses for those - some good free impulses can be found as well, or there's RedWirez library although i would advice against it unless you're OK with spending hours upon hours on finding just the right combination of impulses).

vincenti · Post by **vincenti** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:37 pm

[quote="Burillo"]depends on what you want. if your 20 instances are all full of crazy FX than no, there's no lightweight alternative because what you are doing isn't supposed to be lightweight.

if, on the other hand, you just use amps and don't care much for FX (or use external FX), you might try amps-as-separate-plugins such as LePou, TSE or Ignite Amps stuff (all free), or something along the lines of Kuassa ONE/Creme/Vermillion - which aren't remotely as flexible as Amplitube but may be just exactly what you need. Be aware that TSE/LePou/Ignite Amps are [b]heads only[/b] so you will need some kind of cabinet simulator as well (i highly recommend Recabinet, or you can check out LePou Lecab 2, but you'll need good cabinet impulses for those - some good free impulses can be found as well, or there's RedWirez library although i would advice against it unless you're OK with spending hours upon hours on finding just the right combination of impulses).[/quote]

Wow thank you so very much for this reply. The things I do is mainly for sketching purposes, I use three very "lightweight" clean tones, and pretty simple lead tones with some slight reverb and overdrive as main effects, so it's nothing too crazy as far as effects go. I'll give all those a closer look! Thank you very much!

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:47 pm

Perhaps you should try something that's lighter on the CPU then. Amplitube is pretty heavy compared to most amp sims in my experience.

Try something like Simulanalog:

http://www.simulanalog.org/

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:48 pm

then you will definitely find Kuassa Vermillion useful - it is one of my personal favorites. TSE/Ignite Amps/LePou are all more geared towards high gain stuff (well, LePou has some classic amps as well), but many people have been able to extract good clean tones out of them. Kuassa Creme is high gain too, and Kuassa ONE can do both and is akin to cut down version of Amplitube. TSE also has a ProCo Rat and TS808 models as separate plugins, so you might want to get those as well.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:07 pm

Well, first off, you're better off learning how to effectively mix and record. Why on earth would you need all those instances of Amplitube? Also, what audio interface are you using? What is your sample buffer set at? During mixdown you can crank that up and that'll help take a load off your CPU.

Remember, Sgt Pepper's was recorded on a 4 track reel to reel tape deck. How? George Martin was a genius at the effective use of resources. The digital studio is a different animal, but the same kind of principals apply. Learn how to freeze tracks when it's appropriate. Learn how to put groups of tracks on a buss. Learn how to use an effects send.

It's a lot to learn, but it'll help you no matter what software you use.

vincenti · Post by **vincenti** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:24 pm

[quote="zerocrossing"]Well, first off, you're better off learning how to effectively mix and record. Why on earth would you need all those instances of Amplitube? Also, what audio interface are you using? What is your sample buffer set at? During mixdown you can crank that up and that'll help take a load off your CPU.

Remember, Sgt Pepper's was recorded on a 4 track reel to reel tape deck. How? George Martin was a genius at the effective use of resources. The digital studio is a different animal, but the same kind of principals apply. Learn how to freeze tracks when it's appropriate. Learn how to put groups of tracks on a buss. Learn how to use an effects send.

It's a lot to learn, but it'll help you no matter what software you use.[/quote]

I don't really care about mixing and recording more than to get rough drafts down. I need that many instances cause I use many simultaneous voices, if I write a symphony or choir piece for example I sketch it by recording guitar since that's my main instrument and the one where I can be fairly expressive to illustrate vocal qualities. What is Sgt Pepper?

All that stuff seems to be the kind of stuff that I don't want to learn, I want to be focused on making music and composition rather than WORKSTATION TIPS AND TRICKS! Cause I don't do that on any of my final productions anyway, I send it to friends that enjoy that kind of stuff.

However I do appreciate your advice and thank you. But I doubt I'll ever even learn what a Buss is.

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:51 pm

Sgt Pepper is Beatles' "Sgt. Pepper Lonely Hearts Club Band" album

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:44 pm

vincenti wrote:
zerocrossing wrote: Well, first off, you're better off learning how to effectively mix and record. Why on earth would you need all those instances of Amplitube? Also, what audio interface are you using? What is your sample buffer set at? During mixdown you can crank that up and that'll help take a load off your CPU.

Remember, Sgt Pepper's was recorded on a 4 track reel to reel tape deck. How? George Martin was a genius at the effective use of resources. The digital studio is a different animal, but the same kind of principals apply. Learn how to freeze tracks when it's appropriate. Learn how to put groups of tracks on a buss. Learn how to use an effects send.

It's a lot to learn, but it'll help you no matter what software you use.
I don't really care about mixing and recording more than to get rough drafts down. I need that many instances cause I use many simultaneous voices, if I write a symphony or choir piece for example I sketch it by recording guitar since that's my main instrument and the one where I can be fairly expressive to illustrate vocal qualities. What is Sgt Pepper?

All that stuff seems to be the kind of stuff that I don't want to learn, I want to be focused on making music and composition rather than WORKSTATION TIPS AND TRICKS! Cause I don't do that on any of my final productions anyway, I send it to friends that enjoy that kind of stuff.

However I do appreciate your advice and thank you. But I doubt I'll ever even learn what a Buss is.

Then be prepared to live in frustrated ignorance for the rest of your recording days.

vincenti · Post by **vincenti** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:11 pm

[quote="zerocrossing"]
Then be prepared to live in frustrated ignorance for the rest of your recording days. :hihi:[/quote]

Hmm, are you saying there's no way to have a workstation being sort of "automatic" in a broad sense is impossible? That I should spend hours learning software tricks and then after I've learned it I'll have to go back and forth between being an audio engineer/daw-housekeeper while I'm trying to get my ideas down as quickly as possible? That doesn't sound like very efficient writing flow to me. It doesn't seem like a good idea for instrumental purposes either(would be difficult to keep the hands warm between recordings?). I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. I'm not that ignorant I just want to not really care much about the daw, it's just the place where I make my sketches you know? Thanks a lot for your replies it's making me think in other ways and I'm trying to understand how to approach this stuff better.

Burillo · Post by **Burillo** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:36 pm

vincenti wrote: Hmm, are you saying there's no way to have a workstation being sort of "automatic" in a broad sense is impossible? That I should spend hours learning software tricks and then after I've learned it I'll have to go back and forth between being an audio engineer/daw-housekeeper while I'm trying to get my ideas down as quickly as possible? That doesn't sound like very efficient writing flow to me. It doesn't seem like a good idea for instrumental purposes either(would be difficult to keep the hands warm between recordings?). I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. I'm not that ignorant I just want to not really care much about the daw, it's just the place where I make my sketches you know? Thanks a lot for your replies it's making me think in other ways and I'm trying to understand how to approach this stuff better.

well, in all honesty, he's right. you would most definitely benefit if you learn just a little bit of audio engineering and how to properly use DAWs. it will certainly speed up your workflow because you would know how to do things more efficiently, rather than simply how to do them at all.

however, if you don't want to, i can't blame you. i have a friend who is exactly like you - he writes songs, i record him, and we have lots of fun. i see no reason why you should go down that road if you don't want to.

robogone · Post by **robogone** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm

Well one thing that can improve workflow would be to get some sort of hardware with transport controls that you can put down right next to where you sit with your guitar.

PALU · Post by **PALU** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:58 pm

I understand that you have your way of working and that's why we use computers to aid us in our workflow - not to hinder us. so I'm sure there are few simple "daw tricks" that will give you a technical boost as well as a creative one.

I think that at least you should learn how to freeze tracks - that will take the CPU load down a lot. it should be fast enough not to kill your composing flow.

and why use things like Ozone for draft composing - you can put it later on mixdown. for what are you using Ozone? maybe there are more CPU friendly alternatives (I bet there are - especially for draft quality).

at general I would use very simple CPU-friendly plugins for draft composing and then I would replace them with a higher quality ones. it could be a little harder for guitar sounds (I tend to play differently with different guitar tones) - but it's just for sketching, isn't it?)...

vincenti · Post by **vincenti** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:46 pm

[quote="szalonykp"]I understand that you have your way of working and that's why we use computers to aid us in our workflow - not to hinder us. so I'm sure there are few simple "daw tricks" that will give you a technical boost as well as a creative one.

I think that at least you should learn how to freeze tracks - that will take the CPU load down a lot. it should be fast enough not to kill your composing flow.

and why use things like Ozone for draft composing - you can put it later on mixdown. for what are you using Ozone? maybe there are more CPU friendly alternatives (I bet there are - especially for draft quality).

at general I would use very simple CPU-friendly plugins for draft composing and then I would replace them with a higher quality ones. it could be a little harder for guitar sounds (I tend to play differently with different guitar tones) - but it's just for sketching, isn't it?)...[/quote]

Thanks for your reply. I bought Ozone because a lot of people recommended it for quality I mainly use it for it's reverb and some rudimentary equalizing. I never understood the built in ableton reverb very well and could never get it to sound okay. But for sketching I see your point I don't have to use reverb on that.

I tried freezing tracks but got some weird sound coming from the record armed tracks. Sounded like they got some digital "afterglow". I didn't know what that was and tried for hours to fix it to no avail. I don't know if it had to do with the freezing or if it was some ramload error or what do I know :) anyway it didn't turn out great but I'll try it again.

vincenti · Post by **vincenti** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:04 pm

[quote="robojam"]Well one thing that can improve workflow would be to get some sort of hardware with transport controls that you can put down right next to where you sit with your guitar.[/quote]
Transport controls are record, arm, play, stuff like that? I have a nanoKONTROL2 which does all that stuff, it's very lightweight and very plastic but that also means I can throw it around and move it very easy, I use it A LOT.

Guitar amp sim plugins promoting efficient workflow.