Things I hate about... - Cubase 7

[LawrenceF]

Yeah Jan, I hear you and that too makes sense.

And to be clear, I'm not absolving software developers of blame when things go wrong or they release something without proper testing, which sometimes happens. Products should work as advertised... and most probably do for most.

But we users are in full control of when and what to buy or try, if we can have a little patience. You might (with Steiny anyway ) have to wait a few months for a demo but... not a big deal really... unless there is some really critical reason why a person just has to have it right now.

[LawrenceF]

I'd also suggest (as a purely practical matter) that if so many people didn't actually outright buy Cubase X.0 on every major release totally in the blind, not being able to run it and test it first, they'd probably start putting out a demo much, much earlier, or even at the same time as the major release and (if it's even really necessary there, no personal clue) general quality control would probably also go up a notch or two for major releases because of the higher risk of losing potential sales with buggy releases.

But they don't have to do that now becasue they know many thousands will buy it without being able to try it for themselves first anyway... just based on the marketing.

Be the change.

[AstralExistence]

its no different with buying games. game developer releases game, reviews are very high, then once people actually buy it, the real truth comes out, and all the little annoying things, bugs, problems, occur, by then the company has the buyers money in there pockets, then it takes, x amount of versions to actually get the game to a solid working state. usually, it takes about 8 months to year to really get the game/software rock solid.

by the time the game has become rock solid, the game/software developer has created a press release that, the new 'latest' version is released with new bla bla bla, then the shit hits the fan all over again. there should really be a law to protect buyers from these underhand tactics. ive no doubt that, "in due time" cubase 7 will be just as rock solid as v6 but in the meantime, it the buyer that loses out and worse, short of selling the damn software, must just suck it up.

[SJ_Digriz]

The other interesting internet meme that comes with new versions is the "OMG ITS FULL OF BUGZ AND IS UNUSABLE". However, when it comes down to it, the "bugs" are usually either trivial, or quickly addressed. So a lot of the major noise about stability and "beta" testing is just that ... noise. However, feature loss, which is NOT a bug, or things that are working as intended but are not meeting expectations is an entirely different thing. But the relentless noise from the idiots who scream BUUUUGZ, tends to drown out the actual conversation about functionality. Functionality shortcomings and bugs are completely different things. That line gets blurred too often.

Another interesting thing is the endless Feature Requests that are posted by people who have just picked up the program for the first time or are parroting some feature they don't understand. So, the vast majority of FRs are for things the program already does. Which again drops the actual FRs to background noise. It's a viscous cycle. I'm on the dev side in my day job, so I see this problem from that perspective very clearly.

[SJ_Digriz]

its no different with buying games. game developer releases game, reviews are very high, then once people actually buy it, the real truth comes out, and all the little annoying things, bugs, problems, occur, by then the company has the buyers money in there pockets, then it takes, x amount of versions to actually get the game to a solid working state. usually, it takes about 8 months to year to really get the game/software rock solid.

by the time the game has become rock solid, the game/software developer has created a press release that, the new 'latest' version is released with new bla bla bla, then the shit hits the fan all over again. there should really be a law to protect buyers from these underhand tactics.

but again, "by the time" is really a matter of a few days or maybe a week or two. If you are that concerned about $60 for a game ... wait. The obligation is on you, not the companies. If more people would exercise restraint, fewer BS releases would occur.

But in addition to that, speaking from experience in that realm, that vast majority of those "bugs" are from marginal systems, or systems that have been hacked/banged/raped/pillaged by the owner. Games and software are now staggeringly complex in the topologies they have to support. There is not such thing as being able to write code that will run under all scenarios. It just isn't possible, let alone financially feasible.

[chk071]

its no different with buying games. game developer releases game, reviews are very high, then once people actually buy it, the real truth comes out, and all the little annoying things, bugs, problems, occur, by then the company has the buyers money in there pockets, then it takes, x amount of versions to actually get the game to a solid working state. usually, it takes about 8 months to year to really get the game/software rock solid.

Software is always buggy. And Steinberg has added a lot of new features to Cubase, which means a lot of potential new bugs. As you have read on this topic though, not everyone encounters a lot of bugs with it.

Regarding the game topic, games are becoming more and more complex, and have to run on gazillions of hardware configuration, some coming with better, some with worse drivers. A nightmare for programmers i could imagine. It pretty much depend on the publiser whether these bugs get adressed or not, or better the budget which the publisher unleashes for the game.

[SJ_Digriz]

There is a distinct difference between a "BUG", where a game scenario does not work properly and a "bug" where some audio card can't play the center channel muxed to stereo out. But, people lump them together. Most game developers will fix the former quickly, but they will try to avoid hardware fixes unless it is for mainstream equipment or drastic driver mistake.

[AstralExistence]

its no different with buying games. game developer releases game, reviews are very high, then once people actually buy it, the real truth comes out, and all the little annoying things, bugs, problems, occur, by then the company has the buyers money in there pockets, then it takes, x amount of versions to actually get the game to a solid working state. usually, it takes about 8 months to year to really get the game/software rock solid.

by the time the game has become rock solid, the game/software developer has created a press release that, the new 'latest' version is released with new bla bla bla, then the shit hits the fan all over again. there should really be a law to protect buyers from these underhand tactics.

but again, "by the time" is really a matter of a few days or maybe a week or two. If you are that concerned about $60 for a game ... wait. The obligation is on you, not the companies. If more people would exercise restraint, fewer BS releases would occur.

But in addition to that, speaking from experience in that realm, that vast majority of those "bugs" are from marginal systems, or systems that have been hacked/banged/raped/pillaged by the owner. Games and software are now staggeringly complex in the topologies they have to support. There is not such thing as being able to write code that will run under all scenarios. It just isn't possible, let alone financially feasible.

tbh, i don't find that cubase actually 'crashes' very much if at all. if were being completely honest in terms of where cubase7 stability is at in (7.02) then no, the crashing issues were pretty much solved after 7.02 was released referring to the preset window bug or whatever it was called. cant remember any new crashes since then. but spiking does does occur, and seems to be a very well know issue with native instruments software. which is a huge issue considering that of all vst developer, n.i. could be considered the industry standard. sure, the spiking could be a ram issue. that might very well be the cause, since no spiking occur with any other vsts i have, only absynth.

one could say, well, remove the software thats cause the issues and you wont get spikes anymore. i will try that, but to all the other people who own n.i plugs with much better system specs, the claim of not enough ram goes out the window. and, i admit, i didnt know why exactly, im not happy with upgrading to v7 from the awesome v6, but i know why now. because though i couldn't explain my reasons, for not being happy with v7 compyfox has made it clear all the things i wanted to say but did not know how to say with my current understanding of cubase. theirs a lot to not like in v7 and going from v6 to v7 is like night and day. that much is true.

[LawrenceF]

Yeah... games are a little different because you can't really demo a game other than maybe borrow it from somebody who already bought it or try level 1 in the store or something. But you can easily demo most consumer software so it's a pretty easy thing in most cases to know exactly what you're buying well before you actually buy it.

I mean... a $500 DAW is not exactly a small expense for most people. If I were buying a $500 used motorcycle I'd certainly want to drive it first. I wouldn't take the seller's word that it runs like new and has no issues and all that.

A $20 app or a $5 iPad app? Sure, I do those kind of impulse buys all the time and sometimes it ends up being not so useful. $500 or $250 to upgrade (like maybe more than my gas or light bill this month?)... erhm... not really, not without a test drive.

Granted, there was a time in the past with Cubase where you had no choice but to do that if you wanted to own and use Cubase... or go demo at someone else's place. That time has long passed.

[AstralExistence]

Granted, there was a time in the past with Cubase where you had no choice but to do that if you wanted to own and use Cubase... or go demo at someone else's place. That time has long passed.

well i own artist7 not full. in going so far as to actually sell my artist7 due to these things or what compyfox mention that isn't going to happen. cubase7 is still a great daw if not the best, very capable and is industry standard. however, until these issues that me/compyfox are experiencing are fixed/improved upon ill me more then happy to continue to complain about them.

[LawrenceF]

Yeah, I hear you. Cubase Artist 7 'aint exactly cheap, it's like $250 full / $130 to upgrade or something right?

My personal "don't get burned" rule about not buying media software that can't be demoed first kicks in somewhere around the $40-50 mark. That's about as much as I'll risk in the blind.

[jancivil]

spiking does does occur, and seems to be a very well know issue with native instruments software. which is a huge issue considering that of all vst developer, n.i. could be considered the industry standard. sure, the spiking could be a ram issue. that might very well be the cause, since no spiking occur with any other vsts i have, only absynth.

a broad, general statement 'well-known issue with NI software' out of what is probably just some perusal of people with specific problems reporting on the internet is noise, though.

AGAIN, chances are the software is made to consume more resources than the people with the 'issues' can bring. Or there is some conflict in their system. I don't have the issues; if we're talking about the same software, all this means is I am doing something the people that have the issues aren't doing. I remember Absynth on my Pentium 4 machine. I could run maybe two instances before it's 'unusable'. I have a very robust system today, though, and I have to manage particular things I make in Absynth as the resource hog nonpareil!
I've had to learn a lot and I've had to find ways to ensure I do not have for instance 'spiking issues'. Sadly, this typically costs money. Now, it may be that Cubase 7 or Kontakt 5 something I don't know about has them per se. But a trope like that has too much traction compared to how true it is or isn't.

there is an issue of people with unrealistic expectations; when I started out using things like that I was very surprised that the computer which seemed to spec out ok was not enough for a whole lot of what I wanted it to be. On paper, I could have run Gigastudio! IT NEVER HAPPENED.

[AstralExistence]

ok so, if it is true that absynth is a resource hog, i also have padshop pro. is padshop pro also a resource hog? considering its a vst3 which shuts off when not being used, is this the better option in terms of less cpu intensive pad/atmo plugin? better meaning, less cpu intensive then absynth?

[Suspended In Dusk]

I keep reading the expression and it just doesn't compute. Cubase, "industry standard" - really?

Or do people mean "one of the standards", along with Digital Performer and the rest of the guys? Or is industry standard simply anything that isn't Reaper?

Or are we talking about a different industry, or maybe even a sub-industry? Like the industry standard among people who use Steinberg DAW software that's not Nuendo?

In no way is this meant to criticize Cubase itself, but rather, that surprising 'industry standard" label. I thought that it was commonly accepted that Pro Tools was as close to an industry standard as there is. Again, I'd much rather work in Cubase than Pro Tools if I had to pick one myself.

Honestly, I have NEVER seen Cubase in any studio in Canada nor in the US - I mean commercial studios. Maybe they have a copy of it in a drawer somewhere, but I've never seen it in use. It's all Pro Tools - and Logic would be the strong second. Can't tell about Europe and the rest of the world, though, but then, we're talking about a bunch of local industry standards.

Or maybe those 8 or 10 studios I refer to from personal experience are the exceptions - along w/ all the studios you see in magazines and such... Maybe Cubase is the real standard, but only its users know it.

[AstralExistence]

I keep reading the expression and it just doesn't compute. Cubase, "industry standard" - really?

Or do people mean "one of the standards", along with Digital Performer and the rest of the guys? Or is industry standard simply anything that isn't Reaper?

Or are we talking about a different industry, or maybe even a sub-industry? Like the industry standard among people who use Steinberg DAW software that's not Nuendo?

In no way is this meant to criticize Cubase itself, but rather, that surprising 'industry standard" label. I thought that it was commonly accepted that Pro Tools was as close to an industry standard as there is. Again, I'd much rather work in Cubase than Pro Tools if I had to pick one myself.

Honestly, I have NEVER seen Cubase in any studio in Canada nor in the US - I mean commercial studios. Maybe they have a copy of it in a drawer somewhere, but I've never seen it in use. It's all Pro Tools - and Logic would be the strong second. Can't tell about Europe and the rest of the world, though, but then, we're talking about a bunch of local industry standards.

Or maybe those 8 or 10 studios I refer to from personal experience are the exceptions - along w/ all the studios you see in magazines and such... Maybe Cubase is the real standard, but only its users know it.

ok then instead of saying industry standard, its used a lot in the industry