Linux...anybody using it?

[jeffh]

Just to clarify, this is where I mean, not where I think you mean.

Ah... Got it, fix coming soon, thanks...

Well, 2 bars are very often used, by I think everyone.

Just one big long scrolling page.

I'd have to think about that one, there may be some caveats on the code side of things to consider before allowing that... but I was initially thinking "no", but now I'm kind of warming up to the idea, nice one

Sure thing. It's a different paradigm to how most DAWs work as you have noted it is not based on the copy Cubase model. Similar to how FLStudio is different to the Cubase model, but different of course. Then again all of them have Piano Rolls, but it probably wasn't Steinberg that invented that in the first place. Shame they didn't have copyright from the old days of automated piano working on 'punch cards'. Someone's children's children might be making a lot of money now. But I digress...

cheers.

I'm sure Apple patented the piano roll after purchasing eMagic, but they're waiting on PyDAW to reach maturity before they sue

[codec_spurt]

What is the pixel size of the knobs?

Any size, they will be scaled by the GPU as appropriate

Oh cool, I didn't know that. I'll PM you when I've put them in my dropbox.
I am assuming that you have KnobMan on your system to open the files.



cheers.

[jeffh]

What is the pixel size of the knobs?

Any size, they will be scaled by the GPU as appropriate

Oh cool, I didn't know that. I'll PM you when I've put them in my dropbox.
I am assuming that you have KnobMan on your system to open the files.

cheers.

I don't, never heard of Knobman, I'll have to Google(tm) it... My knob is just a single .png image that gets rotated and scaled by Qt...

[codec_spurt]

Not sure how that would work.

Anyway, KnobMan is excellent and free:
http://www.g200kg.com/en/software/knobman.html

You can dl it and open the files and then convert to png I suppose.


Btw, do you use that chat up line in bars?
It might explain why you are coding DAWs for Linux.



In fact, it's not too bad actually, I've said worse spur of the moment.
I might write it down to use later on.




On a more serious note, when you open the file in KnobMan, there is a button called 'test' on the far right pane. If you move the slider up and down, you can see the knob rotate in all its glory.

I don't see how the method you use would be able to have the same effect. But use what you want. There is no export to .png in the program so I guess you would have to take a screen shot.


cheers.

[urlwolf]

Here's the output you requested:

hpappy/home/jack ♪ aconnect -i
client 0: 'System' [type=kernel]
0 'Timer '
1 'Announce '
client 14: 'Midi Through' [type=kernel]
0 'Midi Through Port-0'
client 20: 'io|2' [type=kernel]
0 'io|2 MIDI 1 '
hpappy/home/jack ♪ aconnect -o
client 14: 'Midi Through' [type=kernel]
0 'Midi Through Port-0'
client 20: 'io|2' [type=kernel]
0 'io|2 MIDI 1 '
hpappy/home/jack ♪

Btw, now that ardour 3 does midi, is there any hope to use it to host plugins, even native ones? What were the downsides of ardour? (jeff, I take your word, up to now it's saved me some forum diving.)

[jeffh]

@codec_spurt: Screenshots are reasonable strategy for that, thanks

Here's the output you requested:

Got it, thanks...

Btw, now that ardour 3 does midi, is there any hope to use it to host plugins, even native ones? What were the downsides of ardour? (jeff, I take your word, up to now it's saved me some forum diving.)

Admittedly, I haven't tried the final release of 3.0 (and probably won't), but I did try some of the betas from a few months back or so, and from what I understand, not much has changed since then... If you're just recording and mixing audio with it, it's not bad, but even the Ardour devs admit that MIDI wasn't doing as well as they'd hoped after like 6 years of work on it... It was definitely a crash-fest when I tried it...

Then there's the lack of what I would consider "pro-quality" instrument plugins for Linux. Zyn/Yoshimi are capable of decent sounds, but the GUI is inexcusably bad, I can handle ugly, but I can't handle an unintuitive clusterf_ck of windows and dialogs... Linux had no reliable modular sampler other than Euphoria (Hydrogen would be great if it could do per-sample insert effects like Euphoria, LinuxSampler is a glorified and over-hyped SoundFont player that I found atrocious coming from Kontakt).

But there's Win32 VST support in Ardour, you say? I think the dismal success rate here says it all:

http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10818

Using Linux to run Windows software is a bad strategy that's never worked reliably, but if you don't need a conventional Kontakt-style sampler (or even top-notch Windows-calibre synths), and Ardour happens runs decently on your PC, and your particular workflow doesn't trigger any of the numerous documented crashes, then I suppose it's not too bad...

[jeffh]

I think I've got all of the potential crashes fixed, I will try to release that tonight, but it could possibly be tomorrow... I added some really experimental stuff yesterday(re: architectural changes to MIDI processing and automation), I need to make sure I'm not solving 3 problems and adding 10 more with this release...

[urlwolf]

Thanks.

I've allocated some time to investigate ardour + native linux vsts. THere are some of these, I read that TAL noisemaker is not bad. And there are commercial ones, like aspect:
http://www.loomer.co.uk/downloads.htm#Aspect

Can I expect decent stability with native vsts?

Of course, once midi works for me I'll give pydaw a try.
----

One thing about pydaw's GUI that I don't like is that it uses tabs, ie modes, for everything. I have a 27' screen, I'm sure most of the tabs' info could be displayed simultaneously.

If you want to know more about why modal interfaces are bad, check: nomodes.com/Larry_Tesler_Consulting/Home.html

Larry Tesler is the guy who invented mouse selection, copy, and paste . He knows his interfaces.

[pljones]

If you want to know more about why modal interfaces are bad, check: nomodes.com/Larry_Tesler_Consulting/Home.html

Larry Tesler is the guy who invented mouse selection, copy, and paste . He knows his interfaces.

I got a really good book for my MSc called "Designing Interactions" by Bill Moggridge that covers Larry as one of it's "stars", in a chapter that also interviews Doug Engelbart, Stu Card and Tim Mott. Really interesting read if you're into UI design and its history.

[jeffh]

I read that TAL noisemaker is not bad.

Well... It gets high marks relative to competing native Linux VSTs, but a resounding "meh" from Windows people owning the big commercial plugins... But people who produce on Windows using freeware only will probably find it to be par for the course...

And there are commercial ones, like aspect:
http://www.loomer.co.uk/downloads.htm#Aspect

That one doesn't really impress me, a bit overhyped IMHO... Another VA synth with "big pretty professional looking knobs" and otherwise pretty "meh".... The interface is just a big wall of knobs with no flow to it..

Can I expect decent stability with native vsts?

I don't know, I think that's pretty much going to come down to whether Ardour managed to sort any of their stability issues, and also on the actual plugins you're using...

One thing about pydaw's GUI that I don't like is that it uses tabs, ie modes, for everything. I have a 27' screen, I'm sure most of the tabs' info could be displayed simultaneously.

If you want to know more about why modal interfaces are bad, check: nomodes.com/Larry_Tesler_Consulting/Home.html

Larry Tesler is the guy who invented mouse selection, copy, and paste . He knows his interfaces.

Feedback and criticism are always welcome, but I'm going to have to disagree here... Window switching is a fairly cumbersome action (alleviated slightly by Alt+Tab), but only things like plugin UIs make sense as separate windows... Also, the "Cutting Edge UX Principles"(tm) of his era aren't really the same as today's

I think the general consensus today is that tabs are good, as long you don't have too many of them, and excessive secondary windows and dialogs are bad... See:

http://hallofshame.gp.co.at/index.php?f ... e=original

[urlwolf]

Oh, I'm not saying you should have secondary windows. But assuming I have a monitor big enough, I want to have all the information in the tabs (modes) visible at once. See for example renoise's interface. Or radium. Some things like eq, compressor, etc can fold, becoming a tab (vertical in the case of radium). But then, I'm not in a 'mode'. In pydaw, if I go to the piano roll, I'm in that mode. I cannot see anything else. This is what I mean.

PS: of course, having dozens of popup windows could get me in a modeless state, if I had the patience to reorganize them, and/or a killer tiling window manager. A pity that most tiling WM suck...

[urlwolf]

Another killer example of a modeless interface is sunbox. The way it stretches the work areas (but note the area is always there) is genious. Maybe because it was designed for touch first...

[jeffh]

Somebody has taken the liberty of creating "The PyDAW Thread", let's please move the conversation (at least what relates to PyDAW anyways) there?

Of course, Linux conversation that has nothing to do with PyDAW should probably remain here, signal-to-noise ratios and all that...

[glokraw]

Thanks.
I've allocated some time to investigate ardour + native linux vsts. THere are some of these, I read that TAL noisemaker is not bad. And there are commercial ones, like aspect:
http://www.loomer.co.uk/downloads.htm#Aspect

Can I expect decent stability with native vsts?

Reaper with wineasio is by far the most stable solution,
to use windows vsts in linux. Festige would be second choice.

Using supported harware, with a solid distro, taking time to
implement known solutions, you can use a multitude of name-brand commercial,
and widely acclaimed freeware, in linux.

When you see windows vsts running within Ardour, on youtube videos,
or similar reliable evidence, then you will know positive changes
have taken place.

Noisemaker is the culmination of much TAL coding, and is a fine instrument.
Zynaddsubfx recently received a new gui skin, and I like the way separate
synth sections, and fx, have always been kept separate.
The wide range of sounds offer a great starting point for
new sound creations.

Some free, and low priced jewels that work in linux:

U-he/Zebra collection
Ugo collection
Angular Momentum collection
TAL collection
AlgoMusic collection
Wusikstation collection
HG Fortune collection
Astralis collection
Krakli collection
Fretted Synth collextion
Synth1 collection
Native Instruments Reaktor many many Ensembles
Native Instruments Absynth/Guitar Rig/FM8/Massive/Razor/Prism/Scanner
Cakewalk Z3ta+ V1.5/Rapture
IK Multimedia Amplitube collection
Most freeware guitar ampsims, TSE, Poulin-LePou, Ignite etc
Most sundry freeware synths, Oatmeal, Augur, KXOMNI-600/SF2, White Lightning,
SuperwaveP8, Ultrasonique, MiniMogue-Luxus,SQ8L, Xhip
Dune, Diversion Alchemy Magazinewares,
EZDrummer, Addictive Drums, Drumcore

A few lifetimes of great sounds in there, before being rakked

[pc999]

BTW a new version if Qtractor

http://www.kvraudio.com/news/rncbc-org- ... ease-21753

This one was the closest I had from play full time, but I quick got bored of the jack pluging and save procedures to the multiple instruments... Today it is PyD or LMMS.


BTW a interesting extra, acording to Steam there is only 1% Linux users as there is OSX ones!!!

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... px=MTMyOTc

(not many in total but it is a nice perspective)